Rugby - Swinging Handbags!

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
According to reports here he is considering returning to the inferior code with Gold Coast?

He's been linked with the Brisbane Broncos (the team he came from), several clubs in Sydney, and a new team that's being proposed for the Gold Coast. The word is that he will stay in rugby. Apart from anything else, with club salary caps in L*****, no one could afford him. Apparently he's looking at around $500,000 a year and the ARU doesn't have a salary cap.

Tigers are notorious for their rather casual attitude to signings so I am hardly surprised we lost him. I’ll keep an eye out for him when the exiles are on the box next season. I hope someone told him that London Irish actually play in Reading (boring little town)?

Mmmm. I've been through Reading. Poor bugger. Being a sophisticated Sydney lad, he was probably thinking somewhere in Chelsea.

The Wallabies still look weak in the second row – Sharp, Vickerman, Plank? Looks weak up against Shaw and Grewcock on paper.

Gee, they're your starting locks? How different from last November.

There are a couple of young chaps here, too. Chisolm from the Brumbies is one. Lots of potential, from the U21 Wallabies, but inexperienced in the bigger time. He should make it onto the bench against Scotland. His Brumbies partner, the Fijian Samo, might even sneak a spot against the Scots too. Bit of a freak - massive man, he can carry the ball in one hand like a pea; good jumper, solid around the ground, runs like the wind, sometimes plays wing for his club. Scary proposition.

So the big news I think is that Clive is ‘resting’ Ben Kay, Greenwood and Robinson.

Well, from the last time I saw them, the only one you'll miss is Robinson, and even then I'm not sure that he produces often enough. Frankly, I think it's the Greenwoods of the world who should be first out your door come rebuilding.

But that is good news for the SH as it means the centres travelling are Stuart Abbott (Wasps), Mike Catt (Bath), Mike Tindall (Bath), Fraser Waters (Wasps) – and that looks weak to me.

Mmmm. So whose hand will Tindall be holding this time? And Catt's still around? I suspect Stirling Mortlock will be seeing a faith healer if that's what it takes to get onto the field against that bunch.

So it’s the same old story – they look more than powerful enough up front to master anything thrown at them – but the backs, particularly the midfield, look suspect. Traditional England?

Missing, of course, the most important component of all. Speaking of which, who's skipper? The Nose?

who just over three years ago declared he was done with rugby and went back packing in some colonial backwater for a few months before realising Leicester was a much nicer place to be.

The Leicester CIA strikes again.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Tamerlin


Too many Wasps!

Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz ... STING!

[Havak]

True - Wasps and Bath are all over it like a rash.

Hopefully England commitments will take their tole on them the same way they did Tigers.

Another Aussie is jumping ship - Saracens just signed a lad called Bartholomeusz from ACT. Presumably he had little chance of a wattle shirt?

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by finbar




Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz ... STING!

CRUSH!

[Havak]

Apparently he's looking at around $500,000 a year and the ARU doesn't have a salary cap.

That’s a tidy wage – does it incorporate his S12 contract (ie is that directly with the ARU too?)

Being a sophisticated Sydney lad, he was probably thinking somewhere in Chelsea.

He is definitely in for a shock then.

Gee, they're your starting locks? How different from last November.

They are the pair that played NZ Maori. Grewcock broke a toe early in the RWC or would probably have been on the bench in the final. Shaw was the most controversial omission from the squad – and also missed the six nations through injury. He is a cracking player in excellent form – albeit another ‘WASP’ As a combination they should do well.

So Chisolm and Samo have been the ones keeping Giffin shining pine? Samo sounds like one to look out for.

Frankly, I think it's the Greenwoods of the world who should be first out your door come rebuilding.

Which is why I am so sad that Smith has missed another opportunity – he is a much smarter rugby player than Will.

They may miss Kay – he is jaded but he has been the lineout general for England for some time.

So whose hand will Tindall be holding this time? And Catt's still around?

Tindall-Abbott would seem to be the first choice combo. And yes Catty is there – now an Exile player of course. He is only 32 despite having been around for ever.

There’s no doubt the Wallaby centre line will be ‘better’ – but will it matter if your pack is rolling backwards at fifty mph?

The nose is indeed skipper – perhaps the best news of all for NZ and Australia?

I’d still like to see Jonno there – for the sheer intimidation value as opponents know whatever they throw at him he will not break. Dally certainly does no inspire the same feeling.

The Tigers CIA scours the world for new talent (for other clubs to poach from under our noses generally).

Hmm didn’t you say Mortlock is a post grad in a science discipline? Out of the tri-nations injured? On a short term Wallaby deal? He seems ripe for us to talk to (and Saracens then sign).

Oh I almost forgot - the only genuine openside going is uncapped. George and Phil will be salivating already?

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
Another Aussie is jumping ship - Saracens just signed a lad called Bartholomeusz from ACT. Presumably he had little chance of a wattle shirt?

Mark Bartholomeusz. Handy player. Winger, can play in the centres at a pinch. Quick, not very big. Pretty much a permanent bench player for the Brumbies who has managed to score a number of tries with fresh legs late in matches. Called in as a replacement on the last NH tour when all those injuries hit. Best summed up as a very useful back up. Staniforth is a better buy.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Tamerlin


CRUSH!

Sorry. You were stung. You were crippled, paralysed by the venom.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
That’s a tidy wage – does it incorporate his S12 contract (ie is that directly with the ARU too?)

Possibly not incorporating S12 money. The recent big money buys - Rogers, Sailor , and Tuquiri - were done by the ARU. The S12 franchises have caps on what they can pay players. Once they signed with the ARU, they were free to decide which S12 outfit they joined. The tussle for Tuquri's services went on forever because the franchises couldn't outbid each other because of the payment cap. It came down to opportunity, environment, etc.

They are the pair that played NZ Maori. Grewcock broke a toe early in the RWC or would probably have been on the bench in the final. Shaw was the most controversial omission from the squad – and also missed the six nations through injury. He is a cracking player in excellent form – albeit another ‘WASP’ As a combination they should do well.

Yes, but neither are You Know Who.

So Chisolm and Samo have been the ones keeping Giffin shining pine? Samo sounds like one to look out for.

Yes, Chisolm and Samo have been the surprises of the comp. When the Brumbies lost Vickerman and Plank, it was thought they would struggle for locks. Nucifora brought Chisolm down from Queensland with him and nurtured him for a couple of years. Samo - well, he'd been there for a couple of seasons coming off the bench and providing great entertainment. He became a cult hero for the Brumbie supporters. Suddenly, given starting responsibility, he proved he could actually do the job. He's still very raw and will never be a classic lock, but trying to stop 6' 5" and 16 stone with the speed and agility of a winger will always offer the oppo a headache.

There’s no doubt the Wallaby centre line will be ‘better’ – but will it matter if your pack is rolling backwards at fifty mph?

Well, your pack isn't last November's pack either. We shall see.

The nose is indeed skipper – perhaps the best news of all for NZ and Australia?

I’d still like to see Jonno there – for the sheer intimidation value as opponents know whatever they throw at him he will not break. Dally certainly does no inspire the same feeling.

I'll just keep quoting that match against the ABs last year when the cards flowed. One man saved England that day. I'll wait to see who you have to perform that feat on a regular basis.

Hmm didn’t you say Mortlock is a post grad in a science discipline? Out of the tri-nations injured? On a short term Wallaby deal? He seems ripe for us to talk to (and Saracens then sign).

Leaving aside the fact that he will probably take over the captaincy from George, dream on.

Oh I almost forgot - the only genuine openside going is uncapped. George and Phil will be salivating already?

And they're both in jolly good form. Now, let's talk about your flankers. One in particular. Mr Lipman. Obviously you had it mind to mention that he's not only Australian born, but a former Australian U-19 representative. In fact, he was recently named in his Sydney club's all-time best President's XV. Mmmmm?

[Havak]

It came down to opportunity, environment, etc.

And he chose the Waratahs even so?

Still as long as that ARU contract is in place there is no money offer anywhere in the world that could tempt him away I suspect.

Yes, but neither are You Know Who.

Well no one will ever be that again will they.

Shaw is certainly in the form of his life – and may prove a real handful. Grewcock has surprised me in that he has done a reasonable job trying to fill very large shoes. As a pairing they are better than anything we saw in Wattle last November – but I guess the new ACT guys might challenge that next month?

He's still very raw and will never be a classic lock, but trying to stop 6' 5" and 16 stone with the speed and agility of a winger will always offer the oppo a headache.

So from the Lomu mould? Meaning he will be entirely useless against every other team but England?

Well, your pack isn't last November's pack either. We shall see.

It isn’t – but it’s still very powerful, extremely experienced and in my opinion way ahead of what it will be facing. Backy and Johnson are huge lossesof course – but Vickery not so as he has been playing on reputation for over a year. White will actually improve the scrumagging I suspect. If he has the courage to play Flatman instead of Woodman the discipline should be better too. A backrow of Hill/Dally/Jones/Corry – it’s solid enough – and more physical that what it will be facing.

Keep your eye on Chris Jones – he will feature. He is a new breed of English loose forward –startlingly fast and very effective in the loose – not that good at the core job of a flanker in the breakdown. He was described here last weekend on Sky as very “Super 12 like” which believe it or not is not intended as a compliment.

I'll wait to see who you have to perform that feat on a regular basis.

We have to pin our hopes on the IRB giving us a referee who knows the game this time around. English players binned for slowing ball – Kiwis given medals for receiving 5M forward passes.

Though they will probably give us that muppet Lewis who practically gifted France the six nations with his ineptness.

Leaving aside the fact that he will probably take over the captaincy from George, dream on.

You would be amazed how fast a player can go from golden boy to nothing. Did you notice VD did not make either tour? And he is playing really well right now – I would imagine he hates Clive at the moment. Cue Finbar to

Obviously you had it mind to mention that he's not only Australian born, but a former Australian U-19 representative.

But I did mention him. Who do you think the uncapped player was?

I didn’t name him because not only is he Australian he also plays for the Scum – sorry, I mean “Baaaaath”.

Just a thought here – how much would it p*** the Aussies and Kiwis off is England win three from three? I get the impression that elements of Kiwi rugby at least have assumed they have suddenly leap frogged us (without even playing their new line up yet). At least Eddie is observing the usual pre-match pseudo respectful banter – though it does crack me up that he only ever refers to CW as ‘Sir Clive’ in that wonderful mickey taking way of his.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
And he chose the Waratahs even so?

In terms of opportunity, the Brumbies were already loaded with players of his type. The Reds, at that stage, were in the middle of yet another coaching upheaval which put him off going there, even though he's from Queensland. It probably wasn't a difficult choice in the end.

Still as long as that ARU contract is in place there is no money offer anywhere in the world that could tempt him away I suspect.

That's actually why I think his decision is about more than money. If it were simply that, the ARU can easily outbid anyone else. He's a religious chap, fond of family, and the one problem with rugby that he has voiced is the amount of travel and time away from family. Whatever, Wendell is pretty confident he will stay with rugby, and they're very close mates.

As a pairing they are better than anything we saw in Wattle last November –

You really should do away with those aluminium saucepans.

So from the Lomu mould? Meaning he will be entirely useless against every other team but England?

Fingers crossed!

Keep your eye on Chris Jones – he will feature. He is a new breed of English loose forward –startlingly fast and very effective in the loose – not that good at the core job of a flanker in the breakdown. He was described here last weekend on Sky as very “Super 12 like” which believe it or not is not intended as a compliment.

You mean he can actually break into a run?

We have to pin our hopes on the IRB giving us a referee who knows the game this time around. English players binned for slowing ball – Kiwis given medals for receiving 5M forward passes.

I'll leave that one to the Kiwi cousins.

Though they will probably give us that muppet Lewis who practically gifted France the six nations with his ineptness.

I'd leave that one to Tamerlin except he's probably down the library looking up Beethoven in an encyclopedia!

You would be amazed how fast a player can go from golden boy to nothing. Did you notice VD did not make either tour? And he is playing really well right now – I would imagine he hates Clive at the moment. Cue Finbar to

Who needs a cue?

But I did mention him. Who do you think the uncapped player was?

I didn’t name him because not only is he Australian he also plays for the Scum – sorry, I mean “Baaaaath”.

A nifty sidestep - straight into a Butch James tackle. So how many foreign-born players in the squad is it? How many changed countries to get a game of rugby?

Just a thought here – how much would it p*** the Aussies and Kiwis off is England win three from three? I get the impression that elements of Kiwi rugby at least have assumed they have suddenly leap frogged us (without even playing their new line up yet). At least Eddie is observing the usual pre-match pseudo respectful banter – though it does crack me up that he only ever refers to CW as ‘Sir Clive’ in that wonderful mickey taking way of his.

Yes, well, he has a sense of humour. Lady Clive doesn't.

I'm happy to bet you 10 Civ gold now that England doesn't win three from three.

[Havak]

It probably wasn't a difficult choice in the end.

To Aussie Joe Q Public that explanation must make good sense. To an outsider it is harder to understand – ACT are clearly the only franchise an ambitious player should want to join if he craves silverware. He needs to back himself to beat those other similar players to a starting spot in the franchise.

On which note I picked up a copy of the PC game Pro Rugby Manager 2004 the other day. Created by a French developer and poorly translated it lists the SH Premier club Tournament as ‘Top 12’. It also have a number of humerous translation errors in game and gets various squad players and positions wrong (it has Andrew Powell as Tigers starting number 8 – and he never played first XV) but for all that it is good fun – with a few more patches it could be very good. I’ve been mainly playing as Tigers in friendly game against English opposition – but will be looking at beating a few SH teams soon. I bet McCrae is listed with NSW.

Whatever, Wendell is pretty confident he will stay with rugby, and they're very close mates.

Interesting pair – both have had good moments against England. The problem for Wendall is his only good moment came against England.

You really should do away with those aluminium saucepans.

That’s not a sidestep – it a huge leap into surrealism!

Fingers crossed!

Mine too – with the opposing wish.

You mean he can actually break into a run?

He is fast for a flanker. Very fast indeed. He could play wing at a push. If your wings and fullback disrespect him on that score then gawd help them.

So how many foreign-born players in the squad is it? How many changed countries to get a game of rugby?

There’s the Aussie. Catty, Abbott and the younger tight head are Boks by birth. Dally could have been eyetie (but was born here). There may be others I guess but I’ll not look it up as it is hardly important – all former colonials are English to us – forget this political independence fad.

In any case with 25 Englishmen good and true in a squad of 30 our percentage Englishness probably still beats the Wallabies percentage Aussieness. It sure as heck kicks ass out of the All Blacks Kiwiness.

The grammatically poor ‘ness’ is my suffix of choice today.

Clive has a sense of humour - but it is one of those that cannot be turned inward on himself.

And no bet - two tests with the whole "20 Million Aussies versus 22 Poms" machine at work - you buggers will steal one game somehow.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Havak
– all former colonials are English to us – forget this political independence fad.

NZ refused Britain's offer of independence for 16-odd years...that makes us more British than the British.

[Havak]

I agree - that is very British.

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by finbar
I'd leave that one to Tamerlin except he's probably down the library looking up Beethoven in an encyclopedia!

Who?

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
To Aussie Joe Q Public that explanation must make good sense. To an outsider it is harder to understand – ACT are clearly the only franchise an ambitious player should want to join if he craves silverware. He needs to back himself to beat those other similar players to a starting spot in the franchise.

Equally, there's the challenge of contributing to lifting an aspiring team. You never know, climate might also have entered the equation. He's Fijian, via Brisbane. Canberra is hardly tropical.

On which note I picked up a copy of the PC game Pro Rugby Manager 2004 the other day. Created by a French developer and poorly translated it lists the SH Premier club Tournament as ‘Top 12’. It also have a number of humerous translation errors in game and gets various squad players and positions wrong (it has Andrew Powell as Tigers starting number 8 – and he never played first XV) but for all that it is good fun – with a few more patches it could be very good. I’ve been mainly playing as Tigers in friendly game against English opposition – but will be looking at beating a few SH teams soon. I bet McCrae is listed with NSW.

I read a review of a PC rugby game in the paper the other weekend. I imagine that was it. Got quite a good review. From memory, it said they had sacrificed physical likeness - cartoonish heads, etc - for operating options. Of course, they might just have looked at J****'s likeness and wrongly assumed it was a cartoonist's creation. Check the menu options for the Bok players. Are there options for headbutt and spit?

Interesting pair – both have had good moments against England. The problem for Wendall is his only good moment came against England.

Barring anything untoward, or misguided loyalty, Wendell has played his last game. There are others ahead of him. He had a very average S12 season. Rathbone got better and better as the season progressed. He has to be a big chance.

That’s not a sidestep – it a huge leap into surrealism!

You're obviously unaware of the now ancient scientific claim that cooking in aluminium saucepans contributed to Alzheimers.

He is fast for a flanker. Very fast indeed. He could play wing at a push. If your wings and fullback disrespect him on that score then gawd help them.

He'll be left standing scratching his head in clouds of our flankers' and wingers' dust wondering which way they went.

Dally could have been eyetie

On behalf of my bretheren-in-spirit, I deeply resent the association.

There may be others I guess but I’ll not look it up as it is hardly important – all former colonials are English to us – forget this political independence fad.

In any case with 25 Englishmen good and true in a squad of 30 our percentage Englishness probably still beats the Wallabies percentage Aussieness. It sure as heck kicks ass out of the All Blacks Kiwiness.

Been practising your stepping on the PC game, obviously. To no effect. Your diatribes against players crossing borders to further their rugby careers are etched in our memories.

The grammatically poor ‘ness’ is my suffix of choice today.

Yes, you drove Tamerlin back to the library and the encyclopedia. Not a bad thing.

And no bet - two tests with the whole "20 Million Aussies versus 22 Poms" machine at work - you buggers will steal one game somehow.

Mmmm. The PC rugby game obviously has a stepping tutorial. It - and you - need a patch. Fast.