Rugby - Swinging Handbags!

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
Not a typo at all. I understand Austin has also already signed to be Public Relations Manager for Wallbies-Lions 2013.

Guaranteeing the first ever loss-making Lions tour.

A harsh and cold hard fact that leaves us with the frightening conclusion that NZ and Australia are ranked 4th and 5th in the World!

Or do you deny England are ranked ahead of both in the IRB rankings?

Ah yes, our old friend the rankings. Meaningless things. Anyway, let's see how things look after your SH tour. That will put things in perspective.

And whatever qualities he may lack Mouth does have the ability to switch gameplans – even when that meant hiding at fullback and booming the ball up field?

True. But, as I say, he's involving himself in the game more.

I’d like your take on the fly half, Charlie Hodgson. Been plagued by injury but very good IMO.

Well, if Larkham plays up to his S12 form, it will be an interesting test for him.

I agree. Never the same since his crucian ligament went. Number 8 is a tough position ... But he was kept out of our starting XV by two lads who can switch from 6 to 8 more readily – and that seems to be the way modern rugger has gone?

Yes, the role of the #8 in modern rugby is one of the more interesting questions (or even dilemmas). These days, the ideal needs to be just about Superman. It's always been the position on the rugby field that has most fascinated me.

Thommo – world cup hangover lasted through the season as did the pie baggage.

He might be the best available for you, but I don't think he's much more than average.

Shaw and Grewcock for Jonno and Kay – not bad replacements by any means and should hang in with anything thrown at them on this tour. Shaw in particularly is immense and strong in both line out and scrum and carries well – he has been core to Wasps success.

I haven't seen enough of them to be entirely sure - when has that stopped me before? - but I think this is where the standard has really slipped. Of course, it's up to the ABs and us to exploit that, which is an entirely different matter.

But the back row worries me. Hill at openside? No cannot agree there but it is inevitable I think. And the blindside-8 combo? Back-Dally-Hill started the RWC final. If he plays Hill-Dally-Jones/Worsely we will get creamed. If he plays Hill-Dally-Corry that’s a very physical backline indeed and no one will have an easy time against it. The big problem is the ongoing absence of Moody (and incidentally at 25 there is a real chance he will never play again – recurrent fracture problems with the foot). Moody has the speed of a Chris Jones, the power of a Corry and the fearlessness of a Backy. He is the little blond bullet that hurried Rogers in to the clearance kick that produced the last line out if you recall.

Sad about Moody if that's the case. Our back row is yet again much debated because it's connected to our lineout problems - play Smith and Waugh as breakaways and our lineout options are reduced to the immensely predictable. The usual possibilities are being tossed around - Smith to #8, one of the young locks to blindside and the lineout. They need to make a decision sooner or later because you don't turn into a good blindside overnight.

If I had known Scotland were on I wouldn't have watched anyway. I'm waiting to see them against top ranked oppo.

I'm very annoyed that I've missed both the ABs' trial and the Samoa-Scotland match! And I don't blame myself for not checking the programme guide!

[finbar]

Incumbent assistant Brumbies coach Laurie Fisher has been appointed to replace David Nucifora at the Brumbies. Definitely a seat-warmer until someone like Rod Kafer becomes available.

[Tamerlin]

Stade Touslousain 21 - Club Athlétique de Brive 8

After a mediocre game the Stade Toulousain has qualified itself for the semi-finals of the French Championship and has taken the first place of the B pool thanks to Stade Français' defeat at Biarritz. The Biarritz Olympique can even hope to qualify itself for the semi-finals if it wins its last game and if the Stade Toulousain beats the Stade Français in Paris next week during the last day of the play-off. The Toulousains seem determined to win because of the behavior of the Parisians and their coach Nick Malett. Eliminating the Stade Français from the competition appears to be interesting enough.

The Union Sportive des Arlequins de Perpignan has lost his first play-off game away from home against the Club Sportif de Bourgoin-Jailleu. The USAP is still the first of the A pool but can theoritically be eliminated though the last games will more certainly decide whether the Castres Olympique or Bourgoin will follow the Perpignanais in the semi-finals (with an advantage for the Club Sportif de Bourgoin-Jailleu).

Manu Edmonds has proved once again he is the barometer of the USAP, a mediocre game from him resulted in a mediocre game for the Union Sportive des Arlequins de Perpignan.

A suivre...

[finbar]

Originally posted by Tamerlin
Stade Touslousain 21 - Club Athlétique de Brive 8

Now what was your prediction for that game?

Manu Edmonds has proved once again he is the barometer of the USAP, a mediocre game from him resulted in a mediocre game for the Union Sportive des Arlequins de Perpignan.

After all the money they spent? It's ridiculous.

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by finbar

Now what was your prediction for that game?

In spite of my pessimism about the play-off, the game against the Club Athlétique de Brive wasn't among the games I considered Toulouse could lose.

After all the money they spent? It's ridiculous.

The defeat of the USAP is a real surprise to me, I would not have bet a cent of a Euro on Bourgoin. Fortunately, Manu Edmonds is playing well more often than not.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by finbar


Good. I missed the first half and the first ten minutes of the second half. Didn't know it was being telecast! So I missed seeing Carlos in action for the Probables. I gather the Probables were seriously outplayed in the first half and Carlos was less than impressive. I only saw Mehrtens, and thought he did well. Let me know what you think of the first half in general and Carlos in particular.

Well I finally got to see the AB's trial game. The possible's defence didn't really give Carlos a chance to do much of anything, so most of the time was just passing the ball on without taking it forward very much. As usual, Carlos let the pressure affect his game. Overall, the first half was marked by some good continuity from the possible's forward pack. I wouldn't say the possibles dominated in the first half, but they certainly had the momentum.

[Havak]

A weekend without any live or televised rugby available to me – I have withdrawal symptoms!

Even Austin could not kill the cash cow that is the Lions Finbar. Dallaglio possibly could.

Anyway, let's see how things look after your SH tour. That will put things in perspective.

Faced with such confidence I can only hope we beat the odds and surprise you.

True. But, as I say, he's involving himself in the game more.

I can’t in all honesty wish him well – not least because this weekend we face the AB backlash. To me mouth is the same as VD is to you – talented player but no diplomatic skills. And that’s the kind version.

Well, if Larkham plays up to his S12 form, it will be an interesting test for him.

I would not claim he is a match for Larkham at his best – but then I personally have not seen Larkham like that since about 2000. Hodgson can live with the Larkham we saw in the RWC – particularly the one who tackles players without the ball and get cut to ribbons for it.

These days, the ideal needs to be just about Superman

And in his own mind Dally probably is.

Has Lyons made that shirt his own for this series?

He might be the best available for you, but I don't think he's much more than average.

I wouldn’t disagree. However with Keith Wood retired I think Thommo is as good as any hooker in the world. You have pointed out the lack of quality in the position after all.

Of course, it's up to the ABs and us to exploit that, which is an entirely different matter.

Quite.

Yes it is a lower quality combination than Johnson-Kay – but it is more than a match for what it is facing in a direct comparison. It’s a shame Clive didn’t have the courage to take Deacon down south – a Deacon-Shaw combo would have excited me more.

play Smith and Waugh as breakaways and our lineout options are reduced to the immensely predictable

I feel this would work well against us never the less – maybe less so in the tri-nations?

Definitely a seat-warmer until someone like Rod Kafer becomes available.

Kafer is locked into Sarries for a while. But they sack all their coaches eventually.

Two bits of news I see this morning – Ireland’s tour to South Africa is under threat because of a possible Boks player strike.

And Wales centre Iestyn Harris, lured from League at great expense around the same time Robinson moved, apparently wishes to move back by the end of the summer. Shame.

[Andydog]

Just dropped in to say hi before the England NZ match. My new job and other time commitments have kept me from this thread, but after a quick scan of the above posts I see that Havak is already talking down his team's chances.

I think Henry has picked the strongest side available to us right now, and I see that Clive has said he is also fielding his strongest team, with Wasps, Bath and Northampton providing the bulk of his 22. As they were the first three in the Zurich Premiership i think it’s fair to say there are a lot of form players in there.

Areas England may be able to exploit:
An inexperienced Kiwi number 8. About this time last year, Rodney So’oialo was being talked off in some quarters as the solution to New Zealand’s eightman problem. Unfortunately he was out-muscled, out-thought and out-played by Dallaglio in last year's June game and Mose Tuiali'i or Rush will be in a similar position to Rodney this time round. Same outcome?

Front row: I'm sure White will have an impact against the relatively green All Black front row, and if Woodman can get his act together (and Thompson doesn’t screw it up) knock ons may be costly. Flatman could also replace Woodman in the second test if his injury problems clear up by then and he would probably be a stronger scrummaging option at loosehead as well.

Service to our backs: "His" passing was awful in the trial and if I were Woodward, I would drum it into Matt Dawson’s and Hill’s heads that they can have a huge input into going some way towards nullifying the dangerous Kiwi backs by ruining the service they get. "He" has a bit of a temper on him as well, so winding him up would be a good idea.

With new combinations in the AB front row, second row and loose forwards, could cohesion be a little lacking early on? Last year Ma’a Nonu, So’oialo and Ali Williams were all seem as good options but being honest that turned out not to be the case. Realistically, England are pretty unlikely to get a consistent edge over the ABs in the backs but one of our great strengths recently has been the amount of time the squad has spent together and their familiarity with each other’s strengths and weaknesses.

Anyway, go the Blacks, a nice warm up game for the Tri-Nations.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
A weekend without any live or televised rugby available to me – I have withdrawal symptoms!

Me too! I even watched the Sydney club match that is telecast by the ABC on Saturday arvos.

I can’t in all honesty wish him well – not least because this weekend we face the AB backlash. To me mouth is the same as VD is to you – talented player but no diplomatic skills. And that’s the kind version.

At least the hair on Mehrtens' head is his own. Oh, and when did I call VD talented?

I would not claim he is a match for Larkham at his best – but then I personally have not seen Larkham like that since about 2000. Hodgson can live with the Larkham we saw in the RWC – particularly the one who tackles players without the ball and get cut to ribbons for it.

He was getting back to that old form in the S12. But then, it was S12.

Has Lyons made that shirt his own for this series?

Mmmm. Hard to know. The #8 position may be part of the shuffle to fit in another lineout option. I'd like to see them persist with him. One of his faults, as a respected local coach pointed out recently, is that he takes the ball up strongly, but the ball tends to die in the tackle too often. He doesn't offload enough.

I wouldn’t disagree. However with Keith Wood retired I think Thommo is as good as any hooker in the world. You have pointed out the lack of quality in the position after all.

Yes indeed. Where have the good hookers gone?

I feel this would work well against us never the less – maybe less so in the tri-nations?

I think you're right, the combo works better against some teams. On song, they're serial pests.

Two bits of news I see this morning – Ireland’s tour to South Africa is under threat because of a possible Boks player strike.

Saw that. They'd better make up their minds. Ireland are already there.

And Wales centre Iestyn Harris, lured from League at great expense around the same time Robinson moved, apparently wishes to move back by the end of the summer. Shame.

I've seen a bit of him for Wales. Seems to have some talent. I saw him come off the bench in one game and play very well.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Andydog
My new job and other time commitments have kept me from this thread

Well, we want to see you put that right! That aside, welcome back.

Service to our backs: "His" passing was awful in the trial and if I were Woodward, I would drum it into Matt Dawson’s and Hill’s heads that they can have a huge input into going some way towards nullifying the dangerous Kiwi backs by ruining the service they get. "He" has a bit of a temper on him as well, so winding him up would be a good idea.

So you think "He" will be Henry's option?

Anyway, go the Blacks, a nice warm up game for the Tri-Nations.

Yes, it's nice to have a workhorse team to practise against, isn't it?

[Andydog]

Originally posted by finbar
So you think "He" will be Henry's option?

I think it will be Merhts. He had a fantastic trial game, turning it around just like he did the Super 12 final, but this time his side was only 13 down when he arrived on the field, as opposed to 33. Thanks to some sharp running and excellent wide passes, he managed to swing the team around to a win this time. Huge influence on the result.

[Havak]

Welcome back indeed. Heck yes I am talking down our chances. You nailed it yourself by pointing out the number of Wasps, Bath and Saints players in the squad.

In mitigation three Tigers players that would have travelled were unavailable for the tour due to injury (Smith, Rowntree, Moody).

The interesting thing is it will not be Dawson-Hill pressuring the fly half – Clive has taken to playing Hilly at openside (much to my chagrin) so the blindside will be one from Worseley, Jones or Corry. The latter is my choice (comes from a decent club side) as his physicality will give the oppo stand off a real hard time. In reality it will probably be Worseley.

Oh, and when did I call VD talented?

Never. It’s not a case of recalling anything positive you said of him but rather thinking back to the least negative. In an early exchange re: his impact on and off field in Oz you almost conceded at one point that you wouldn’t say he had no playing talent.

Yes indeed. Where have the good hookers gone?

Search me. I am glad to see Cockerill back at Tigers but he will never wear the rose again – he upset Clive very badly with a book.

Did I mention that ACT player power Mr Paul had met with Tigers about a possible move btw?

On song, they're serial pests.

They are annoying I’ll give you that.

Ireland are already there.

And how angry would they be?

Seems to have some talent. I saw him come off the bench in one game and play very well.

Something of a Carlos – mercurial with time and space going forward. Dubious in defence. They tried him at fly half at Cardiff and Wales initially and he had some real howlers. He fared better when they switched him to 12.

In other news England wrapped up the series against the Kiwi’s in the cricket – taking an unassailable two test lead. The Kiwi youngster Vittori has badly done in his hamstring in the process.

So England 1 NZ 0 this week – I’ll enjoy it whilst I can!!

[Andydog]

In other news England wrapped up the series against the Kiwi’s in the cricket – taking an unassailable two test lead. The Kiwi youngster Vittori has badly done in his hamstring in the process.

England deserved the win, outplayed NZ in most if not all departments. Hard to comment which is the better batting side given the disparity in the quality of the bowling. Oram was missed given he was the best NZ bowler in the first test, at least he would have slowed the scoring rate. NZ middle order disappointing in all 4 innnings so far, past 150 with 1 wicket down for the first 3 innings but never batting England out of the game. England twice getting over rocky middle order positions with Flintoff and Jones. 3rd test looks a major worry with Vettori out as well.

[Havak]

I'm not TOO worried thanks.

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by finbar
Yes indeed. Where have the good hookers gone?

They are all playing at the Stade Toulousain...

Wecome back Andydog...