Comrade Tassadar, Verto... Wtf is this all about?

[Ben Kenobi]

that's not the only question to determine whether one is Christian

No, but it's the first question for Mormons.

[Nubclear]

Originally posted by Kucinich


So what?

What do you mean?
Its my point. It's disrespectful.

Really, do you want me to do a Fez and say Mormons should be thrown our of helicopters for doing this or something?!

[Boris Godunov]

http://www.mormonbeliefs.com/

[chequita guevara]

Why don't Mormons believe that people made their choices in life?

[Ben Kenobi]

I've been to plenty of church services of several denominations where they have said prayers for the souls of the departed.

Members of the Church? That's the important distinction here.

At an Episcopalian church, all you had to do was write someone's name in a book before the service, and the minister would then pray for that person's soul in the service.

Is that person dead? Of course Christians are told to pray for those who are not Christians, who are still alive.

Hell, every funeral I've been to has included a prayer for the soul of the deceased.

So long as they are a believer and a member of the church.

[Ben Kenobi]

If you're of another faith or no faith, you don't believe the baptism has any effect at all.

What's the problem? And remember, they're not actually baptizing the dead... it's a symbolic baptism. No real dead people were harmed in the making of this baptism.

That's the whole problem, which is why this concept is so offensive to Christians. This whole idea of a 'symbolic baptism'.

There can be NO symbolic baptism, meant in the sense that baptism means nothing. Baptism is a symbol, but of entering into the church. For another church to baptise you is a sign that you have made a commitment to the church, that you have also accepted Christ, and that you will be cleansed from your sins.

'Those who are washed, need not be washed again,'

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Members of the Church? That's the important distinction here.

Not necessarily.

Is that person dead? Of course Christians are told to pray for those who are not Christians, who are still alive.

No, these were for the dead.

So long as they are a believer and a member of the church.

Not necessarily. I've seen ministers offer up prayers for the recently departed who weren't members of their faith. It's not exactly hard... many consider it compassionate. See, not everyone has the unwavering view of the matter as you do.

[Kuciwalker]

Ben - why do you pray for unbelievers/sinners (who are alive)? Isn't that just as bad?

[Boris Godunov]

[QUOTE] Originally posted by Ben Kenobi

For another church to baptise you is a sign that you have made a commitment to the church, that you have also accepted Christ, and that you will be cleansed from your sins.

Since one cannot be baptized against one's will, this is a meaningless gripe. If your beliefs are correct, the Mormon baptism is ineffective and does no harm or foul to the deceased. If they're right, the deceased gets another shot to get into heaven. How is that offensive as a concept? That they should want the dead to have another chance to gain eternal happiness?

[Ben Kenobi]

Ben - why do you pray for unbelievers/sinners (who are alive)? Isn't that just as bad?

No.

Matthew 5:43-4

"You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.'

But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven.


The reason we don't pray for dead folks be they believers or unbelievers is that we don't believe there is anything more that can be done for them. However, plenty can change while they are still here on Earth.

[Kuciwalker]

Yes, but it's just as disrespectful to their beliefs.

[Ben Kenobi]

Since one cannot be baptized against one's will, this is a meaningless gripe.

Same assumption I tried to rebut earlier. What is the purpose of baptism?

The problem is not so much that they baptise others, but how they see baptism. I will have no part in something done for the wrong reasons.

Neither do you, because I don't think you understand baptism.

You, if I properly remember your testimony, have been baptised. Do you believe that your own baptism is valid, that you made a commitment to Christ?

Edit for Boris.

[Ben Kenobi]

I've seen ministers offer up prayers for the recently departed who weren't members of their faith. It's not exactly hard... many consider it compassionate.

Why is it compassionate? What joys can death possibly bring them?

Secondly, if one also prays for them when they die, what does it mean to die in the Lord? Is that to be celebrated, or mourned?

[Ben Kenobi]

Yes, but it's just as disrespectful to their beliefs.

Why? Isn't it better to pray for them, so that God may bless them and help with their lives? Isn't it MORE respectful to pray for them than to curse them?

[Verto]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


One question for Verto, and the other Mormons.

Is Christ the Son of the Living God, who came to Earth, taking upon a human nature in addition to his divine nature? Is he fully human and fully divine?

We believe that Jesus is the Only Begotten Son of the Father, that He was born into this world to atone for our sins. Upon His resurrection, he had a body of flesh and bone.