remember those teenage abstinence pledges?

[Ben Kenobi]

stating an alternate cause as to why people who dont cohabitate might not get divorced as much.

And I am saying is that religion cannot be seperated from those who pledge.

The cause and effect relationship, if true, would still not contradict my point.

[Theben]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi

Where's the Billings method in all of this?

the cervical mucus (ovulation) method.

For all FAMs, plannedparenthood didn't offer separate versions for actual pregnancies per 100 women, presumably for lack of data. It did offer separate versions for ideal scenarios, which left the Billings method at 97% success rate. Higher than condoms (70%-96%), but 0% on STD transmission.

[MRT144]

the problem is though ben, despite people taking these formal pledges, and it being a pretty recent thing, divorce hasnt been going down.

and religion can be seperated. I pledge i wont have premarital sex and im areligious.

[Ben Kenobi]

For all FAMs, plannedparenthood didn't offer separate versions for actual pregnancies per 100 women

Well then, I thought you were arguing the real, and not the ideal.

It did offer separate versions for ideal scenarios, which left the Billings method at 97% success rate.

How do they derive this number?

but 0% on STD transmission

Again, this method really only works for married couples, because the woman needs to keep a detailed record of her cervical mucus.

So I consider STD transmission to be irrelevent to the Billings method, because they assume a monogamous relationship.

[Ben Kenobi]

despite people taking these formal pledges, and it being a pretty recent thing, divorce hasnt been going down.

Not enough people to make a statistically significant impact.

However, one can show a correlation between the increase in cohabitation, and the increase in divorce rates.

and religion can be seperated. I pledge i wont have premarital sex and im areligious.

Would you consider yourself to be typical or atypical of the sample of those who pledge?

[MRT144]

So i consider your opinion irrelevant because youre a self righteous zealot.

You chose to ignore half of the arguement with your "method". Your invalid ben.

Abstaining from sex doesnt work like you think it should because people are people.

[MRT144]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
However, one can show a correlation between the increase in cohabitation, and the increase in divorce rates.

right, but not for the reasons you think. Im not arguing that cohabitation and divorce are correlated. Its the cause for cohabitation and divorce. Religionists dont like cohabitation, and they dont like divorce, rather than living together causes divorce.

Then again is divorce really that bad? Should people stay in unfufilling marriages? Should marriage just be for god and kids? I dont have the answers but i certainly dont like yours.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by MRT144
and religion can be seperated. I pledge i wont have premarital sex and im areligious.

Aren't you the one who used to have sex like crazy, including one session involving a telephone card?

[Bosh]

and religion can be seperated. I pledge i wont have premarital sex and im areligious.

Just stupid

Does anyone think its strange that Ben supports pledges, which have a 10ish% success rate over condoms which have a 90ish% success right (higher if you're not an idiot and know how to use them and don't use evil evil evil japanese condoms).

You would understand if you saw a pic of my ex. Best argument to take a pledge.

So you do have a sense of humor after all. Good to see it.

[Ben Kenobi]

You chose to ignore half of the arguement with your "method". Your invalid ben.

No, I do not ignore, rather I say that the method does not work for one-night stands.

It would be obvious to anyone who actually bothered to read the link as to why. The method takes time, investment, and trust between the partners, something you do not see when you slap on a condom.

Abstaining from sex doesnt work like you think it should because people are people.

Again, ideally, abstinence is better than condoms. In the real world, people forget to use condoms, just like people decline their pledge.

[MRT144]

Originally posted by Spiffor



Aren't you the one who used to have sex like crazy, including one session involving a telephone card?

The point im making is anyone can make these pledges and it doesnt mean ****! Saying a pledge and following through are different things.

people who make pledges are just fooling their parents so they can go drink beer and **** on the weekends.

[MRT144]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


No, I do not ignore, rather I say that the method does not work for one-night stands.

It would be obvious to anyone who actually bothered to read the link as to why. The method takes time, investment, and trust between the partners, something you do not see when you slap on a condom.



Again, ideally, abstinence is better than condoms. In the real world, people forget to use condoms, just like people decline their pledge.

and thats the problem with preaching it. ITs unrealistic to expect people who want to explore sex to use a method that involves commitment.

dont be naive and condemn something to uphold your own moral superiority ben.

[Theben]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


Well then, I thought you were arguing the real, and not the ideal.

One can safely assume that the real is much lower, although IMO the majority of the 25% failure rate for FAMs would be rhythm and thermal methods.

Again, this method really only works for married couples, because the woman needs to keep a detailed record of her cervical mucus.

So I consider STD transmission to be irrelevent to the Billings method, because they assume a monogamous relationship.

Perhaps it only works for married couples, but no one but you has assumed monogamous= married. And monogamous realtionships can still involve one partner with an STD and one without.

[Ben Kenobi]

Perhaps it only works for married couples, but no one but you has assumed monogamous= married. And monogamous realtionships can still involve one partner with an STD and one without.

Sorry, my slips showing.

It could work for any monogamous couples who are willing to take the time and effort to learn the method, and to chart the cycles.

It takes about 3 cycles to get a basis for which types of mucus indicate ovulation and which do not.

As for the STD, some are treatable and some are not. If you are married, then you will have the time to treat your partner to prevent re-infection.

For the uncurable ones, they would be a small sample for whom this method would not help.

One can safely assume that the real is much lower,

Actually, all the tests done on Billings give about a 99% success rate, higher than the 'ideal case' purported by Planned Parenthood.

If one is to accept the figures of the condom advocates as accurate for condoms, one ought to also accept the numbers given by the Billings folks for their method.

[MRT144]

Theben, youre going to pull him out of the beniverse