SF throws down the gauntlet to Cali

[Pax]

I disagree with the findings on the fact that homosexuality is something people lie about. So you can't get a good cross section of gays because some will remain in the closet and some people who claim to be straight mught be gay.

I disagree because from your information, you don't give the cause of the stress and drug use. You seem to say that the homosexuality is the cause and the effect is drugs and stress. I say societies unacceptance causes the drugs and stress. That is to say that I as a black man feel more stress than the average white person, am more likely to do drugs, commit a crime, contract an STD and die younger. Not because I am black but because I am not totally accepted by society. That is my firm belief and I would like to change that so that people will not feel stressed to walk down the street.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

An unjust law should be resisted and railed against until it is changed. Yes, it is up to people to decide which laws are unjust and to peacefully agitate for change.

So was it ok for Judge Moore to place those 10 Commandments in the SC building? He obviously believed it was an unjust law which prevented him from doing so.

I'd like to the see people first try to change the law through the law (ie, court), rather than decide just to violate it without going to the courts.

The judge is right to resist a law he sees as unjust. He may fail, but he is right to follow his conscience so long as he does not interfere with others.

On this topic, people have been trying to change the laws through the law for years. How much longer will it take? There comes a time where it is right to resort to civil disobedience in the face of habitual injustice. If the representatives of a fair sized city choose to pick up the cause, huzzah! That must mean that justice is closer to being served.

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
But is the current law unjust? How are homosexuals restricted from loving their partners under the current regime?

Then the people must have a say, and not the courts. The issue must come to a vote.

You'd do well arguing for slavery or apartheid along these lines, at least until your views were in the minority of recognised electors. What then, Ben? Will you accept organised religions being banned when the majority become atheists and are good and tired of religious behaviour that they see as immoral?

All you are arguing for is mob rule, human rights and the rights of minorities be damned.

5. Ben people love who they love. Allowing gays to marry is showing that you believe in the founding fathers vision. It's saying that you respect other people opinion.

6. One of the issues that black americans had during WW1, WW2, Korea, and Vietnam is what am I fighting or again? Our politicians talk about freedom. Let's stop talking about and start being about it.

More 's, even though Ben and I are not Yanks.

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
I sincerely doubt the founding fathers would sanction homosexual marriage. I believe their thoughts would be closer along the lines of 'perversion.'

Let's cut to the chase.

Are these your thoughts, Ben?

[Boris Godunov]

Y'all are just wasting your time. We've been down this road with BK countless times before. He will continue to cling to his shredded arguments beyond any reason, so it's pointless to keep arguing:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=106991&highlight=marriage

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=108502&highlight=marriage

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=108496&highlight=marriage

It's a broken record. He's probably posted more on gay marriage than all the gay posters here combined. It's an obsession with him...so why continue banging heads against the wall of ignorance?

[Aeson]

Discussion for discussion's sake. How many (serious topic) OT threads would there be if only issues where someone convinced another that they were wrong were debated?

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
I am trying to argue that for the majority of people in a homosexual relationship, that they would be happier outside, rather than inside of one. By saying they ought to get married, we are consigning them to unhappiness.

Yes, and the crux of this argument is that you are a bigot. That's what it all really boils down to.

[Pax]

Thanks Boris,
Ben one last question. Why are you so against gays. Did you yourself have any homosexual tendencies and was cured through Christianity?
This is a seroius question. I have a friend who tried that route. He ended up having two kids, joininng, the choir, and becoming a deacon in his church before he left his wife for a man.
He told me that he almost committed suicide because he felt that he had let god down. He knew he let Mom, Dad, Brothers, Sisters, Wife and kids down.

That's him.

What about you?

[Boris Godunov]

[Boris Godunov]

Just to recap, here are the miserable creatures whom BK realizes are responsible for great evil in our land.

[Boris Godunov]

And here are the valiant forces of love. Love the shirt on the one in front. The compassion is overwhelming.

[Pax]

Boris where did you get that first pic from. I think I know one of those sinners. Really.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
And here are the valiant forces of love. Love the shirt on the one in front. The compassion is overwhelming.

Leave off Ben. He sincerely believes this and doesn't want to harm anyone. You can fault his beliefs all you like, but don't fault his character. He's not PA for God's sake....

Anyway, IIRC these are the valiant forces of love...

[Pax]

I hope Ben does not think I was trying to insult him with my question. Some people would be, that's why I said I was serious. Ben, if you are insulted I apologize.

[Giancarlo]

Ben has one of the worst anti-gay agendas I have seen. No matter how he tries to sugar coat his arguments, they are still homophobic. I am just sick of morons trying to belittle people for their sexual orientation. I mean what have we ever done to you? Have we ever done anything to harm you? gay and lesbian people pay taxes... so why the hell shouldn't they be entitled to the same rights?

[Agathon]

And you've threatened violence against other posters. Comical violence, but violence nonetheless. You've also called almost everyone on Poly a moron, a criminal or both.

Whatever else you may say about him Ben has never even called anyone else an idiot as far as I remember. On this forum that signifies a person of exceptional virtue.

What is he supposed to do? To the best of our knowledge, the Good Lord has a downer on fags (at least his book says so). Unfortunately, if you're a Christian and believe he's the Lord of all Creation, that means you have to disapprove of homosexuality. There just isn't any other alternative which won't result in being smitten by the Almighty.

There are two ways of doing this. One is the Park Avenue way and the other is the Kenobi way. Which is the lesser evil? There's no way he has one of the worst anti-gay agendas out there. He's not advocating that homosexuals be stoned or imprisoned as sodomites, but that they not be allowed to marry.

I personally don't have a problem with gay marriage. But some good hearted people do because they believe in the Christian faith. You may not agree with his position, and my guess is that it will turn out to be the loser, but don't impugn his integrity.

[Ben Kenobi]

What about Schubert's, Tchaikovsky's, Turings, Wilde's, etc.

Or would these people be sent to homo re-education camps to be cured of their sodomite ways.

I rather like Wilde and Tchaikovsky's my favourite classical musician. The world would be worse off without them.

Wilde, I don't know how many times I have read Ernest, Bunburying along.

All people are valuable, even gay people to whom violently disagree with my perspective.

And in a way I understand. My thoughts used to be all of your thoughts. So how can I condemn those who think the same way I used to? To do so would be to condemn myself.

I'm not in that picture, Agathon, which was taken a year before I joined. You can see my boss though.

But thank you for standing up for me. Your kind words are greatly appreciated.