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SF throws down the gauntlet to Cali

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  • SF throws down the gauntlet to Cali

    S.F. Sues State Over Bans on Gay Marriage


    By Lee Romney
    Times Staff Writer
    Published February 20, 2004

    SAN FRANCISCO — The city of San Francisco filed a lawsuit against the state Thursday, challenging laws that bar gay marriage on grounds that they violate language in the California Constitution that forbids discrimination.

    In filing Thursday's suit, city officials hope to focus the legal dispute on the constitutional issue of discrimination.

    Opponents of the city's decision to issue marriage licenses to gay couples have tried to limit the case to a narrower issue: whether a mayor has the right to break state law.

    "It goes to the heart of the question: Do we or do we not have the right to do this?" Newsom said at a midafternoon news conference. "It will force the debate and discussion. It was a good move."

    Asked why the city hadn't pursued a lawsuit against the state to clarify the legal question before issuing the licenses, Newsom was frank: "We put a human face and a real story behind the theory of discrimination," he said.

    The legal filing instantly upped the ante in the city's high-profile act of civil disobedience, requiring California Atty. Gen. Bill Lockyer to take a stand.

    Although Newsom's staff said Lockyer had been advised in advance of the city's plan to begin marrying gays and lesbians, the state's top law enforcement officer had remained silent on the issue, saying he had not been asked to weigh in.

    On Thursday he issued a statement saying that he did "not personally support policies that give lesser legal rights and responsibilities to committed same-sex couples than those provided to heterosexual couples."

    "But the people of California have spoken," Lockyer said. "State law prohibits the recognition of same-sex marriages. It is the duty of my office to defend that law against this challenge … and allow the courts to determine whether the city has acted illegally."

    The state Family Code defines marriage as between "a man and a woman."

    Furthermore, four years ago voters approved Proposition 22, a ballot measure that amended the Family Code to state that no same-sex marriages granted out of state would be honored in California and that only marriages "between a man and a woman" were valid.

    Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger reiterated his objection to same-sex marriages and promised that Lockyer would defend state law.

    "The people of California spoke on the issue of same-sex marriage when Prop. 22 was overwhelmingly passed in 2000," the governor said in a statement.

    Officials in the state Department of Health Services have said they would not accept the altered marriage license forms, but San Francisco officials Thursday said it remained unclear whether that would have a bearing on the forms' validity.

    Representatives of the Campaign for California Families are scheduled to appear before San Francisco Superior Court Judge Ronald Evans Quidachay this afternoon to seek an immediate halt to the marriages.

    The Proposition 22 Legal Defense and Education Fund, represented by the Arizona-based Alliance Defense Fund, appeared Tuesday before San Francisco Superior Court Judge James L. Warren with a similar request, which was denied.

    The group and the city were ordered back to court March 29 to argue the merits of the case, giving San Francisco a free hand to continue with the marriages. Already, nearly 3,000 couples have wed in the city.

    In a separate hearing scheduled for this morning, the city will seek to have the cases consolidated before Judge Warren. The Alliance Defense Fund, meanwhile, has asked that the hearing be consolidated before Judge Quidachay.

    Richard Ackerman, an attorney for the Campaign for California Families, said he doubted that Lockyer could fairly represent the state, since he had been aware of the city's actions and had done "nothing to stop it."

    Mathew Staver, president of Florida-based Liberty Counsel, which is serving as lead legal counsel on the case, called the city's suit "a blatant delay tactic" to derail the scheduled afternoon hearing and "put off the merits until later."

    "This case is fairly simple," he said. "Can a mayor alter statewide marriage law? The clear answer is no."

    But University of Santa Clara law professor Gerald Uelmen, an expert on the California Constitution, said the lawsuit would help the city in its effort to have a court rule on the equal protection issue.

    "It gets them closer," he said. "Now the issue of the underlying constitutionality of the state law is directly presented. It certainly puts them in a better posture than defending a claim that they have impinged on state authority."


    Earlier than I expected. So what do you think the fallout's gonna be? Discuss.
    I'm consitently stupid- Japher
    I think that opinion in the United States is decidedly different from the rest of the world because we have a free press -- by free, I mean a virgorously presented right wing point of view on the air and available to all.- Ned

  • #2
    A quick dismissal of San Fran's suit for lack of standing.
    When all else fails, blame brown people. | Hire a teen, while they still know it all. | Trump-Palin 2016. "You're fired." "I quit."

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    • #3
      I am no lawyer, but wouldn't a case have to be brought by someone denied the right to gay marriage?

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      • #4
        Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat
        A quick dismissal of San Fran's suit for lack of standing.
        That's what I was thinking.
        I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
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        • #5
          Side note:

          A 62-year old consultant who is occasionally in our offices stopped me this morning to ask me about the SF thing. We talk politics a lot, and he's more on the conservative end (though not right-wing). He mentioned that a month ago or so he and his wife had a dinner party with several couples their own age where they all discussed the gay marriage issue, and they all agreed that civil unions were ok, but marriage shouldn't be touched.

          Well, after seeing the SF marriages taking place, this past weekend he polled everyone in that group, and they all, to a person, had changed their minds and thought it was fine now. He couldn't explain why, but he himself had the same sentiment.

          So I wonder if now that it is a fait accomplit in SF, it will have a dramatic impact on public opinion of this kind around the country. I think seeing the images of so many happy couples finally being able to get something for which they had ached for a long time warmed people's hearts.
          Tutto nel mondo è burla

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          • #6
            An interesting comment.

            I was watching some pundit or other whose comment kinda succinctly summed up what I think is the american viewpoint "americans are willing to be tolerant of gays and therefore accept the concept of civil unions but dont want to condone homosexuality and therefore dont accept gay marriage".

            Maybe that attitude will be changed when toads etc dont rain from the heavens over SF.
            We need seperate human-only games for MP/PBEM that dont include the over-simplifications required to have a good AI
            If any man be thirsty, let him come unto me and drink. Vampire 7:37
            Just one old soldiers opinion. E Tenebris Lux. Pax quaeritur bello.

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            • #7
              "I think seeing the images of so many happy couples finally being able to get something for which they had ached for a long time warmed people's hearts."

              Yeah..with acid from puking..
              www.my-piano.blogspot

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              • #8
                I said people, not knuckle-dragging neanderthals like yourself.
                Tutto nel mondo è burla

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                • #9
                  A quick dismissal of San Fran's suit for lack of standing.
                  Yup.

                  Heard this, seen this already.

                  Now, if they had just let California work things out, but now? First you challenge the law, and now you sue the California government to change the law? Their only rationale is that they feel they are 'being ignored.'
                  Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
                  "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Boris Godunov
                    Side note:

                    A 62-year old consultant who is occasionally in our offices stopped me this morning to ask me about the SF thing. We talk politics a lot, and he's more on the conservative end (though not right-wing). He mentioned that a month ago or so he and his wife had a dinner party with several couples their own age where they all discussed the gay marriage issue, and they all agreed that civil unions were ok, but marriage shouldn't be touched.

                    Well, after seeing the SF marriages taking place, this past weekend he polled everyone in that group, and they all, to a person, had changed their minds and thought it was fine now. He couldn't explain why, but he himself had the same sentiment.

                    So I wonder if now that it is a fait accomplit in SF, it will have a dramatic impact on public opinion of this kind around the country. I think seeing the images of so many happy couples finally being able to get something for which they had ached for a long time warmed people's hearts.
                    I've been wondering about this for the past week. What struck me about photos and video from SF is how unmistakeably ordinary everyone looks. But then why wouldn't they?

                    What's happened in San Francisco has changed the terms of debate dramatically IMO. It's going to become much more difficult for bigots and hate-mongers to portray gay marriage as some form of perversion, when TV viewers have seen only people who obviously love each other deeply.

                    Bravo, SF.
                    "When all else fails, a pigheaded refusal to look facts in the face will see us through." -- General Sir Anthony Cecil Hogmanay Melchett

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                    • #11
                      Um, IMHO, this is all just full of warm fuzzies, but it would be grimly interesting to see if there are a raft of divorces coming up in oh, say anywhere from a week to 6 months... in the SF area.

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                      • #12
                        hahahah.

                        "Everything for the State, nothing against the State, nothing outside the State" - Benito Mussolini

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                        • #13
                          caught my first one.
                          "Everything for the State, nothing against the State, nothing outside the State" - Benito Mussolini

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by FS*
                            Um, IMHO, this is all just full of warm fuzzies, but it would be grimly interesting to see if there are a raft of divorces coming up in oh, say anywhere from a week to 6 months... in the SF area.


                            Why would all these couples, who have been committed to each other for a long time already, up and decide to get divorced within the next few weeks?
                            Tutto nel mondo è burla

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                            • #15
                              And it has spread to New Mexico:

                              Tutto nel mondo è burla

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