CanPol Thread: the United Right etc.

[Ben Kenobi]

Thank you for the report.

90 percent is absolutely splendid.

No, actually, it doesn't. NYE said that he isn't in favour of last-minute abortions. 99.99% of people would agree; abortion, especially that late, is not a beautiful thing.

Just because it looks bad doesn't make it worse, for many people than the alternative of having to take care of the child.

Secondly, more than 35% of the people in Canada agree with unrestricted abortions, right up to 9 months.

However, that doesn't mean that we should open up the "pandora's box" (to quote NYE), and let the gov't decide which abortions are justified and which aren't. Leave that up to the doctor and their patient.

If we are paying for abortion, then the Canadian Government does get to say what is and is not acceptable. Not all operations are covered by medicare, such as plastic surgery.

Why should the Canadian government pay for abortions? Does it cure a particular medical condition?

[Ben Kenobi]

Support or opposition to Abortion does not define a conservative.

Economic or social conservative? We're talking about social conservatives, Tingkai.

Maritimers recognise the need for government to help out the poor, provide universal medicare and services that are not provide by the private sector.

None of which include abortion. PEI does not cover abortion under their provincial health care.

The BCers who vote for the Reform/Alliance/CRAPP/United tend to be anti-immigration, social conservatives, screw the poor and let the eastern bastard freeze in the dark types.

Many of them just happen to be immigrants, and many could care less about social policies, so long as they get a government that will help Canada economically.

WRT abortion, BC is the second most liberal province in Canada behind Quebec, yet the Canadian Alliance took most of the seats. They have the third fewest percentage of prolife supporters, behind Quebec, and Ontario. Your hypothesis of polarisation does fit, but only for support of abortion. There are not a significantly higher number of prolifers in BC than in Ontario, though about double the percentage of Quebec, far and away the hotbed of support for abortion here in Canada.

There are a significantly higher percentage, 6% of BC folks who support unrestricted abortion compared to Ontario, or 36% and 30% respectively. This falls to 23% in the prairies and 13% in the Atlantic provinces.

All my numbers come from the 2001 Gallup poll, published December 12, 2001.

[cinch]

Alright, now for Part 2: Who'll win the leadership?

*************************************
Prentice to run for new Conservative party
Last Updated Sun, 07 Dec 2003 16:15:30
OTTAWA - Calgary lawyer Jim Prentice has become the first candidate to officially announce he will seek the leadership of the new Conservative party, days after Tory and Canadian Alliance members voted overwhelmingly to merge.

"I think Canadians want to see leadership, they want to see change, and I intend to bring both to Canadian politics." Prentice told CTV's Question Period.

Although Prentice is the first to officially throw his hat into the political ring, Alliance Leader Stephen Harper and Tory Leader Peter MacKay have indicated they will seek the nomination.

Prentice, a long-time Conservative supporter who has never held office, ran second to MacKay in last May's Tory convention to name a new leader. He lost in the fourth ballot after MacKay struck a deal with leadership hopeful David Orchard not to merge with the Alliance.

On Saturday, just over 90 per cent of the 2,486 Tory delegates voted in favour of creating a new combined party to be called the Conservative Party of Canada.

The decision followed Friday's Alliance member vote of almost 96 per cent in favour of the merger.

A leadership vote is expected to take place the weekend of March 19, 2004.

*************************************


SideNote: Say what you will about Orchard, but the man's got a right to be pissed.


SO... who wins?

[Ben Kenobi]

He lost in the fourth ballot after MacKay struck a deal with leadership hopeful David Orchard not to merge with the Alliance.

Prentice gets another shot ahead of MacKay, especially considering the Alliance members of the Conservative party.

Why would they vote for the person supported by Orchard?

As for the leader, probably Harper will get in, just because of how fractured the Tory leadership race, let alone his support by the Alliance members.

And Orchard should join the NDP party, rather than trying to hijack the Conservatives. So should Joe Who. See if he wins his seat again.

[notyoueither]

SideNote: Say what you will about Orchard, but the man's got a right to be pissed.

He's got a right to be locked in a lunatic assylum if he thinks a scrap of paper signed with one man who was not yet an official could have any binding effect on an organisation. Or is he just moron of the decade in Canadian politics?

[KrazyHorse]

Umm....that man should still be judged on how he keeps his word. Ignoring anything else, I would never vote for Mackay knowing that he must already have made up his mind to flipflop while at the same time continuing to lie...

[Ben Kenobi]

Joe no mo

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1845&ncid=1845&e=1&u=/cpress/20031208/ca_pr_on_na/conservative_party

JIM BROWN

OTTAWA (CP) - The new Conservative Party of Canada lost three MPs on Monday, just hours after it was officially registered and began its legal life

Former Tory leader Joe Clark and fellow MPs Andre Bachand of Quebec and John Herron of New Brunswick said they couldn't bring themselves to participate in the new entity formed through a merger of the Progressive Conservatives and the Canadian Alliance.

"This is not my party," Clark said as he arrived for what he called his last Tory caucus meeting. "This is something entirely new . . . . I will not be part of this new party."

Herron, like Clark, said he has notified Speaker Peter Milliken that he will continue serving out his current term and will keep calling himself a Progressive Conservative - the old party name ditched in the merger.

In effect, the two will likely be treated as Independents under Commons rules.

Bachand, who has been courted by the federal Liberals, said he hasn't decided whether to remain in politics, but if he does it won't be under the new party's banner.

"I'm not leaving the boat, the boat is not there any more," he said, expressing regret over the demise of the old Tories.

The defections came just a few hours after an announcement that the new Conservative party had been registered with Elections Canada and thus given official life.

"It is now legally in existence and we're moving forward," said Alliance leader Stephen Harper at a joint news conference with Tory leader Peter MacKay.

Senator John Lynch-Staunton, who heads the Tory forces in the upper house, will serve as interim leader of the new party for purposes of the Canada Elections Act, until a permanent leader is selected in March.

For now, however, Alliance and Tory MPs are still members of separate caucuses in the House of Commons, with Harper and MacKay designated as principal spokesmen in that chamber.

MacKay said he hopes the caucuses can be merged by the time the Commons resumes legislative work in late January or early February.

"That is the intention," he said. "But those final decisions will be taken in due course."

Harper was even less precise, noting that discussions are under way but "it will be a matter of weeks rather than days in terms of us making all of those announcements."

The situation could be complicated by the fact that both Harper and MacKay are expected to be candidates to lead the new party. Aides say that would likely mean designating an interim parliamentary leader to handle things in the Commons while the campaign is under way.

The two caucuses will also have to agree on a slate of House officers and parcel out critics' positions to various MPs.

Grassroots Alliance members voted 96 per cent Friday to merge the two parties, while Progressive Conservative delegates were 90 per cent in favour Saturday

Jim Prentice, a Calgary lawyer and Tory organizer, was first off the mark in the race to choose a permanent leader, announcing Sunday that he intends to seek the post.

Prentice, who has never held elected office, ran second to MacKay at the last Tory leadership convention in May.

His entrance into the new race provides an Alberta-based competitor for Harper, who has been seen as the odds-on favourite to head the new party based on the greater membership numbers and financial strength of the Alliance.

The winner will face the prospect of a spring general election, with incoming prime minister Paul Martin expected to call a vote as early as April - barely a month after the new Conservatives choose a permanent leader.

The new party has named a 12-member interim governing council, composed of six Alliance and six Tory members, to oversee the drafting of a party constitution and otherwise manage internal affairs.

Organizers must also set up new riding associations across the country and select candidates for the general election.

It's unclear whether there will be time to hold a policy convention before Martin decides to go to the polls.

[cinch]

http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2003/12/09/chirac031209



Jacques: "Jean... I... I love you."
Jean: "Uhm... Maybe we should tink about dis?"

*************************************

Chirac pays tribute to 'mon cher Jean'
Last Updated Tue, 09 Dec 2003 22:18:05
PARIS - French President Jacques Chirac praised retiring Prime Minister Jean Chrétien as a "prestigious statesman" at a full state dinner in his honour Tuesday.

In an opening toast at the Paris dinner, Chirac said Chrétien, who is on the final leg of his last international trip as prime minister, has written many great pages of his country's history.

The comments followed earlier speeches by both leaders at the opening of an museum exhibit on the history of relations between Canada and France.

In that speech Chirac repeatedly referred to Chrétien as "mon cher Jean" and said relations between the two countries have never been better.

Chirac spoke of how Canada and France agree on the role of the United Nations. Both countries refused to participate in the U.S. led war on Iraq because it was not sanctioned by the UN.

Chrétien said in an era of globalization, a nation's influence is no longer determined by the number of cannons or missiles in its possession.

"They are measured by the civility and tolerance the nation demonstrates toward its international partners and its openness to dialogue with them."

He said he wasn't directing his comments at any country in particular.

Chrétien said he and Chirac discussed Iraq during a 45-minute meeting, but talked more about Afghanistan, where both countries have troops. The troop commitment ends in August.

"It is getting more complicated and we know that in seven or eight months we have to go and NATO has an obligation and so we discussed who is willing to come," he said.

Chrétien said Canada was not having trouble finding another NATO country to send troops to replace its soldiers in Afghanistan.

**********************************************

Well, at least the frogs still like us, eh?

[Ben Kenobi]

Prestitious statesman?

LMFAO!

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
Umm....that man should still be judged on how he keeps his word. Ignoring anything else, I would never vote for Mackay knowing that he must already have made up his mind to flipflop while at the same time continuing to lie...

I have a feeling that the urge to unite the parties went well beyond the leaders office.

In an unrealted story... a politician died today after having a career in which he never broke a promise. Oh, did I say that this is a fairy tale?

On another note, Ann for deputy PM! Goodale for finance. Hmmmm... perhaps this Martin character is somewhat serious about dealing the West in. Hmmmm... choices, choices...

[cinch]

Originally posted by notyoueither
On another note, Ann for deputy PM! Goodale for finance. Hmmmm... perhaps this Martin character is somewhat serious about dealing the West in. Hmmmm... choices, choices...

I read about Goodale, but not about Ann for Deputy PM... That is indeed intriguing...

In other news: Brison jumps ship to the Libs? He actually has a pretty good reason, I think. It's not so much that he doesn't want to be part of a party with a high homophobe quotient; it's that he doesn't want to become the 'token homosexual' for that party. He said he wants to focus more on financial/tax issues, not be the poster boy for a compassionate right that may or may not exist. Of course, he could be full of lies... Still, it's an interesting reason, I thought.

Also, will Bachand be swallowed up the Libs? Or will he stick it out a while longer as an Indy?

A bunch of interesting developments, indeed...

[Uncle Sparky]

Re: Joe no mo

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi

Former Tory leader Joe Clark and fellow MPs Andre Bachand of Quebec and John Herron of New Brunswick said they couldn't bring themselves to participate in the new entity formed through a merger of the Progressive Conservatives and the Canadian Alliance...

For now, however, Alliance and Tory MPs are still members of separate caucuses in the House of Commons, with Harper and MacKay designated as principal spokesmen in that chamber.

Actually 4 ex-pc MPs won't be joining the new party at this point. Three others are considering there options.

On a happy note - 3 ex-CA MPs have just officially become PC-MPs.

The reason : The PC party would have lost all of its federal funding - including the bulk of Mackay's pay cheque because they would have had less then 12 MPs.

The new party stands for all the integrity one might expect from Mackay. (ok, my cheeks are officially sore from grinning, but ...)

I can't wait for the new Conservative Party to start talking about fiscal responsability !

Man, what a bunch of DOLTS !

[Ben Kenobi]

Actually, they'll sit as independents.

Joe Clark has so much credibility that Brison would rather join the Liberals than to join Clark.

He's done.

Interesting to see if any of the three, including Brison, get elected next turn. The proof is in the next election.

If the Liberals cared so much about the West, why are they just doing something now? They've had 10 years to get their act together.

As for Martin being different from Chretien, remember last election in which a vote for Chretien was supposed to be a vote for Martin? He won't change one single thing in the party.

[Uncle Sparky]

On a happy note - 3 ex-Canadian Alliance MPs have just officially become PC-MPs.

The reason : The PC party would have lost all of its federal funding - including the bulk of Mackay's pay cheque because they would have had less then 12 MPs.

You missed the point completely BK !

The new party is starting off with the optics of a Stockwell Day without the integrity!

Having 2 official parties, propping up the old PCs until March will cost tax payers about half a million dollars !!!

... and Brison has joined the Liberals ! If you know anything about Maritime politics, this is a very bold move. Most people vote the same way their grandparent voted; somehow Brison's riding executive thought he'd be better off with a real political party then the joke the Conservative party is already becoming.

I have to move to another Forum for a while... my sides hurt from

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by notyoueither


I have a feeling that the urge to unite the parties went well beyond the leaders office.

In an unrealted story... a politician died today after having a career in which he never broke a promise. Oh, did I say that this is a fairy tale?

On another note, Ann for deputy PM! Goodale for finance. Hmmmm... perhaps this Martin character is somewhat serious about dealing the West in. Hmmmm... choices, choices...

That's because he's hoping that he can finally start to get Western votes again...