CanPol Thread: the United Right etc.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by notyoueither


I have a feeling that the urge to unite the parties went well beyond the leaders office.

Then why did MacKay lie instead of simply coming right out?

[Ben Kenobi]

Having 2 official parties, propping up the old PCs until March will cost tax payers about half a million dollars !!!

Why is this the fault of anyone but Joe Who? If the Alliance had their way, we would have had only 1 party a year ago. Instead we had to prop up the PC for quite a tidy sum.

So tell me again about fiscal conservatism.

Brison's riding executive thought he'd be better off with a real political party then the joke the Conservative party is already becoming.

If the Libs want a turncoat, they can have him. He promised to stay with the new conservatives to help make a moderate voice, and he jumps ship the first time get gets. Why not try to fight for your ideas? Barring that, then you decide to leave.

[Ben Kenobi]

90% of the old PC delegates wanted this merger and 96% of the Alliance. Regardless of these curmudgeonly MP's the people have had their say. People are tired of the corrupt Liberals, and they want another option.

[KrazyHorse]

Too bad nobody east of manitoba will vote for this party.

[KrazyHorse]

Do you honestly not understand how little respect anybody in Central or Eastern canada has for the Refffoooooorrrm branch? You know all those social conservative policies? They don't play there at all.

The old PCs had a good foothold in the Maritimes, but I really doubt the new conservatives will be able to hold on to that...

[Ben Kenobi]

Define social conservative. We just went down this road, and everybody backed out of the discussion when they actually had to formulate policy with respect to abortion and gay marriage.

And almost as many Ontarians voted Alliance as voted for the Liberals. So don't tell me that this new party will not attract votes east of Winnipeg.

Funny how the East values corruption over integrity.

[Uncle Sparky]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi

Why not try to fight for your ideas? Barring that, then you decide to leave.

I remember a speaker at a Reform con in Victoria about 10 years ago. He started his speech by saying the Reform party had to broaden its base to include conservative gays like him. I never heard the end of the speech : the booing was too loud and the moderator simply turned off his mic and moved on to the next speaker. Sure that was 10 years ago, but the right (as I have just said) has all the integrity of Mackay who lied very publicly to get elected PC leader and all the optics of Day's bunch - they could turn any bit of news into a laugh fest for everyone who wasn't Reform !

And yes, I will take your avatar bet about the NDP beating the Conservatives in the next election... of course if that was a Mackay conservative offer, you can renege at any time!!

[KrazyHorse]

And almost as many Ontarians voted Alliance as voted for the Liberals

If by almost, you mean "something like half", then yes.

Funny how the East values corruption over integrity

Funny how the West values stupidity over intelligence. Gee, I can play this game too.



The CA are viewed as a bunch of crackpots who want to turn back the clock to 1930. A party which has socially conservative politics will never, ever, ever win. The old PC understood this at least.

[Ben Kenobi]

Well my last statement had as many facts and was about as accurate as yours.

A party which has socially conservative politics

That's pretty vague. What are social conservative values? Jon Miller seems to define that as preserving gay unions, which is not something they had in 1930.

[KrazyHorse]

Result: CA won 23.6% of Ontario popular vote.

Having difficulty finding number for Liberals. Can't imagine it's any less than 45% though.

[Ben Kenobi]

And yes, I will take your avatar bet about the NDP beating the Conservatives in the next election... of course if that was a Mackay conservative offer, you can renege at any time!!

Hard to renege from an agreement supported by 90% of your party. There were a great deal of people unhappy with the Conservative agreement with Orchard, and wanted him turfed from the party.

I accept your bet. How long should we keep the avatars?

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Well my last statement had as many facts and was about as accurate as yours.



That's pretty vague. What are social conservative values? Jon Miller seems to define that as preserving gay unions, which is not something they had in 1930.

No, it doesn't. I'm not calling social conservative policies bunk; I'm saying that they don't play past the Prairies.

And that is a fact.

Now, saying that the Alliance is full of closet homphobes who occasionally **** up and say exactly what they think of the Sodomites would be a stretch, but not too much of one.

There's too much of the Bible-thumper in the reform branch of the new party for people in Ontario, Quebec, and the Maritimes to be comfortable with. It'll get a fair amoun of votes in Western Ontario and fringe votes elsewhere, but that doesn't help them try to actually become a winning party.

Polling at 12% does not make you a serious contender for power; it makes you a joke.

What the hell were the Reformers thinking? They had a party on top that was dominated by Westerners and they threw it away. Now they've got a shadow of the old party back after a decade of being twin laughingstocks, not something that inspires confidence. Meanwhile the Liberals have placed themselves squarely on top of the centrist vote while retaining their core constituency, and a Western protest party is never going to displace them.

[Ben Kenobi]

(23.6)
ALLIANCE

(51.4)
LIBERAL

Interestingly, the Alliance polled about 25% nationally, so they did not do much worse in Ontario as they did across Canada.

http://www.sfu.ca/~aheard/elections/results.html

So there you go. It's about as accurate to say that no one voted for them, as it is to say that they got as many votes as the Liberals.

[Ben Kenobi]

Polling at 12% does not make you a serious contender for power; it makes you a joke.

Little early to be popping open the champagne, Krazyhorse. That's why polls aren't an election.

And you still have not defined social-conservative. Are you trying to say that all of the Conservative members are bible thumpers?

Edit:

My slip's showing.

[KrazyHorse]

Social conservative: one who believes the government has a place in enforcing or encouraging a particular set of moral values with respect to its citizens' private behaviour.