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Indisputable Abortion FACTS:

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  • #61
    I have found that some people have memories of when they were 0 (including myself).


    If the mother doesn't want a baby, that doesn't give her the right to abort it. If she was raped, then the father must pay 100% of the cost of bringing up the child, but does not hold the child. If the baby is projected to have a severe mental disorder or physical disorder, there needs to be a goverment controlled organisation to take care of them.


    Problem solved.
    be free

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    • #62
      Originally posted by Zylka
      How convenient it is that they kill the baby while still in the womb, before evacuating. Anyone know why this is?

      ...because if they did it the other way around, the "undeveloped" child would STILL kick and move, struggle to breathe, and weakly protest as the instrument began to crush it's head! Do these sound like the actions of a being that is not yet "self aware"???

      That's right, do the dirty work quickly and inside - so the fetus hasn't a chance to display the horror to other human beings as witness. I guess the doctors cope with their conscience a lot easier this way
      Anyone care to actually address this? I didn't think any of you pro-choicers would take on such a task - so we've at least confirmed one crucial aspect of this debate.

      Comment

      • #63
        Even if we agree that a fetus is a human being with full human rights, that does not include the right to live inside another person's body without her consent. If she wants it out, that is her right. If it's medically possible to remove it alive and keep it that way, it makes sense to require that instead of killing it. But before the 5th month or so (someone with actual medical knowledge is welcome to supply the correct time) this is not possible. Given that, the only way the mother can reclaim the use of her body is an abortion, and therefore she has that right.
        "THE" plus "IRS" makes "THEIRS". Coincidence? I think not.

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        • #64
          I don't particularly like watching, say, cows being slaughtered. Do you? Wanting to watch something die strikes me as an indication of sociopathic problems.
          "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
          -Bokonon

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          • #65
            I wouldn't lower myself discussing on whether an embryo is a human being at a 3 months pregnancy.

            This issue has nothing to do with the real issue of abortion : whether the kid and the parents can live a good life after birth or not. It's pretty easy to oppose abortion when you have no chance of ruining your life because of an unwanted pregnancy yourselves. I'm sure that would be wholly different if you had to cope with the result of some accidental sex during the rest of your life.
            "I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
            "I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
            "I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- Dis

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            • #66
              Originally posted by Rex Little
              Even if we agree that a fetus is a human being with full human rights, that does not include the right to live inside another person's body without her consent. If she wants it out, that is her right. If it's medically possible to remove it alive and keep it that way, it makes sense to require that instead of killing it. But before the 5th month or so (someone with actual medical knowledge is welcome to supply the correct time) this is not possible. Given that, the only way the mother can reclaim the use of her body is an abortion, and therefore she has that right.
              You talk as if the child is some impending PROBLEM that is at fault for burdening the mother! Was it the child's choice to be conceived? NO - SHE was the one spreading her legs!

              ...and don't even bother with the case of rape, as that is a minority exception meant to be tackled AFTER the vast majority issue.

              Comment

              • #67
                Originally posted by Spiffor
                I wouldn't lower myself discussing on whether an embryo is a human being at a 3 months pregnancy.
                ...because you can't prove a point on it and therefore dismiss it as "lowly"? C'mon Spiffy, you're better than that

                This issue has nothing to do with the real issue of abortion : whether the kid and the parents can live a good life after birth or not. It's pretty easy to oppose abortion when you have no chance of ruining your life because of an unwanted pregnancy yourselves.
                A-D-O-P-T-I-O-N

                I'm sure that would be wholly different if you had to cope with the result of some accidental sex during the rest of your life.
                Right, just as I would be equally indignant for making an "accidental" bank robbery in which I "accidentally" shoot a teller in the spine. Even if I fully and sincerely regret my actions down the road - I'd better damn well pay for the mistakes, with the rest of my life! THINK

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by Ramo
                  I don't particularly like watching, say, cows being slaughtered. Do you? Wanting to watch something die strikes me as an indication of sociopathic problems.
                  Yeah - I agree with you. So you're admitting that you are indeed killing a human being? (remember, it's not a cow - it's a child!)

                  ...yet if the murder is kept out of general view, hidden by a womb - it makes everything better? Hell - many institutional murder of full grown human beings which "are no longer wanted" would be ok on that logic, if you just smother them in a heavy synthetic sheet; so they can't move or seem human before shooting them in the head. That makes it all better, right?

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                  • #69
                    Yeah - I agree with you. So you're admitting that you are indeed killing a human being? (remember, it's not a cow - it's a child!)

                    ...yet if the murder is kept out of general view, hidden by a womb - it makes everything better? Hell - any state murders would be ok on that logic, if you just smother them in a heavy synthetic sheet; so they can't move or seem human before shooting them in the head. That makes it all better, right?
                    It's not a child. It's not a human being (as per my definition of being - a sentient form of life). It's a human fetus.

                    I never said that hiding the killing of anything makes the killing morally better or worse. I'm simply saying that killing the fetus inside the womb is practiced for the same reason that [sane] people don't watch cows being killed for entertainment.
                    "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
                    -Bokonon

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Zylka
                      Yeah - I agree with you. So you're admitting that you are indeed killing a human being? (remember, it's not a cow - it's a child!)
                      ?
                      No. He's saying its unpleasant to watch animals being killed, and its also unpleasant to watch fetuses being aborted. I will personally aknowledge that fetuses resemble humans to a great degree at that point of their development than animals, but I would argue the difference is supercifical.

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                      • #71
                        I'd just like to ask one question before continuing pointing out the obvious:

                        Do any of you pro-choicers plan to admit that a HUMAN FETUS is NOT an animal???

                        Comment

                        • #72
                          A human adult is an animal.
                          "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
                          -Bokonon

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                          • #73
                            Well then, can we kill a human adult too?!

                            Comment

                            • #74
                              I never said that killing any animal is ok.
                              "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
                              -Bokonon

                              Comment

                              • #75
                                Originally posted by Mordoch

                                No. He's saying its unpleasant to watch animals being killed, and its also unpleasant to watch fetuses being aborted. I will personally aknowledge that fetuses resemble humans to a great degree at that point of their development than animals, but I would argue the difference is supercifical.
                                Ok - then please define a human being, that has gained the right to not be aborted from the womb. Please, go ahead and define, on any concrete level - I'm asking this favour of you

                                Ramo has clearly stated that any human being is equal to an animal is equal to an unborn fetus - so if an animal can be killed for reasons of comfort, so can an unborn fetus as with an ADULT person!

                                How compassionate.

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