Indisputable Abortion FACTS:

[DeathByTheSword]

Nice! I am dying to get my hands on some... did you see any strange beings or entities during your experience?

heck i still think that DMT cancels gravity or something because i say everything like i was against the ceiling of my room. and yes of course dont forget the midgit elvis` that walked around drinking milk...



and sorry to hear about that

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by DeathByTheSword
i personnelly believe in abortion like stated in the law. and i do not believe that babies become human until they get self aware. and with self aware I do not mean producing brain waves...every animal does that. but i mean seeing you as a person with memories. If you think back to your childhood...you first and oldest memory is the moment you start living. (i am not saying you dont have the same right before that time) but Before that time...you do not actively remember and live.

my first memories are of age 6 or so

and those are likely false

so I wasn't human before that?

Jon Miller

[Zylka]

Exactly, Jon.

[Ben Kenobi]

Well, if you need a hand, don't hesitate to PM me Zylka.

i personnelly believe in abortion like stated in the law. and i do not believe that babies become human until they get self aware. and with self aware I do not mean producing brain waves...every animal does that. but i mean seeing you as a person with memories.

Another answer, what about Alzheimer patients? Should we kill them because they are no longer self-aware?

PETA: Eating meat is like the holocaust
Some anti-abortionists: Abortion is like the holocaust

so the only logical conclusion from this is that

Abortion is like eating meat. Mmmmm, tasty.

Ixnay:
Who came first, the prolifers or the PETA folks?

Make no mistake, if abortion kills a living human person, than the comparison of between abortion and the holocaust becomes very difficult to dismiss.

[DeathByTheSword]

i never said you should kill them......and i also wont agrue that as a baby you are human....but i do not believe that you are a person...in the subconcions maybe but not a PERSON with an identity....but this is all a bit off topic

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Indisputable Iraqi Civilian Facts:

FOR ALL IRAQI CIVILIANS

-HEART IS BEATING
-BRAIN WAVES HAVE BEEN RECORD
-THEY CAN SQUINT, SWALLOW, AND CAN MAKE A FIST
-THEY HAVE FINGERPRINTS AND CAN KICK
-THEY ARE SENSITIVE TO HEAT, TOUCH, LIGHT AND NOISE
-THEY CAN SUCK THEIR THUMBS
-ALL BODY SYSTEMS ARE WORKING

THE US GOVERNMENT IS DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY RESPONSIBLE FOR 6000-7700 IRAQI CIVILIAN DEATHS SINCE THE START OF THE IRAQI CONFLICT

This is not a threadjack. My point is, all societies are prepared to sacrifice innocent human lives when it's in the society's interest to do so. The issue is not whether "abortion stops a beating heart"; the issue is whether it's in the interest of a society to stop that heart. I would argue that it is -- that society is better served by an aborted fetus than by the birth of an unwanted child.

[St Leo]

Originally posted by Zylka

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
self-awareness.

-BRAIN WAVES HAVE BEEN RECORDED AT 40 DAYS

So, do you agree that cows are human and self-aware because they have brain waves?

[Robert]

Re: Re: Indisputable Abortion FACTS:

Originally posted by Mordoch

Easy, all you've done is demonstrated that the baby is on the level of most types of animal life. You haven't demostrated that the baby has the same traits as actually born humans such as their sophisticated thought processes.

Thus, you think murdering someone who's mental insane is ok?

[Robert]

Originally posted by DeathByTheSword
i personnelly believe in abortion like stated in the law. and i do not believe that babies become human until they get self aware. and with self aware I do not mean producing brain waves...every animal does that. but i mean seeing you as a person with memories. If you think back to your childhood...you first and oldest memory is the moment you start living. (i am not saying you dont have the same right before that time) but Before that time...you do not actively remember and live.

Babies don't remember anything before the age of 3 anyway.

How does a just been born baby have self awareness?

[Robert]

Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly
Indisputable Iraqi Civilian Facts:
I would argue that it is -- that society is better served by an aborted fetus than by the birth of an unwanted child.

An unwanted child might be loved and wanted as soon as the parents see it.
Much 'wanted childs' cause much problem.

Not to speak about the mothers who are frustrated after the abortion, and feel guilty for the rest of their lives, that's not good for society as well.

And last but not least, the mothers who decide to abort because pressure by family / father of the child / society.

[JCG]

Well, at least that proves they are alive (whether or not they are "human" is another matter, but being alive is enough for me).

Do you think that a person with advanced Alzheimer's has any self-awareness anymore?

No, and that doesn't mean they must automatically be disposed of (even though some families choose to do so, it's within their right, perhaps).

Btw, I'm pro-choice from a legal standpoint, but pro-life from a personal standpoint.

[Mordoch]

Re: Re: Re: Indisputable Abortion FACTS:

Originally posted by CyberShy


Thus, you think murdering someone who's mental insane is ok?

Generally the mentally insane DO have sophisticated though processes, they are simply screwed up. Read my other posts for more info.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Originally posted by CyberShy


An unwanted child might be loved and wanted as soon as the parents see it.
Much 'wanted childs' cause much problem.

Not to speak about the mothers who are frustrated after the abortion, and feel guilty for the rest of their lives, that's not good for society as well.

And last but not least, the mothers who decide to abort because pressure by family / father of the child / society.

But that's not the question. The question is, which better serves the social interest: allowing women to choose to abort, or compelling all women to carry their pregnancies to term? I submit the former better serves the interest of society.

The traditional counter-argument to this is that a fetus is an "innocent life." I will cheerfully concede this, and point out that societies regularly sacrifice "innocent lives" when it serves their interests -- hence my Iraqi civilian casualty example.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by JCG
Do you think that a person with advanced Alzheimer's has any self-awareness anymore?

Actually, I strongly support euthanasia for this kind of cases. Better stop the suffering of someone who cannot expect anything else from life (I prefer when Euthanasia is performed at the request of the target, but in this case it is impossible).

[Ted Striker]

as well as a wonderful intoxicant when crushed and mixed in with a shot of Jack Daniel's