Indisputable Abortion FACTS:

[JCG]

Originally posted by Spiffor

Actually, I strongly support euthanasia for this kind of cases. Better stop the suffering of someone who cannot expect anything else from life (I prefer when Euthanasia is performed at the request of the target, but in this case it is impossible).

Perhaps...but it can be quite painful for some people to take such a decision when the "victim" was their former significant other, for example (a relative of mine is one such case).

Abortions should cause similar concerns, if not greater, because in those cases the "victim" certainly can expect a lot from life, if allowed to develop and survive.

So the "it's not alive/human (yet) so I can kill it if I want with no guilt" argument doesn't have much weight then (of course, abortion could be done for other reasons, ie: rape, completely unwanted child that would be abandoned to its fate).

[Robert]

Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly


But that's not the question. The question is, which better serves the social interest: allowing women to choose to abort, or compelling all women to carry their pregnancies to term? I submit the former better serves the interest of society.

I say that you can't know before in which way the society will be served better.
In fact the dutch society is currently served best by any baby that's going to be born, otherwise we'll have too much old people in 25 years compared to the young ones. (who have to earn the money)

An unwanted baby will most obviously still been loved.
It's still your child.

I know several teenage mothers who kept their babies, eventhough they were unwanted. Right now nobody knows anymore these babies were unwanted.

Of course things might turn out wrong with 'unwanted babies', but it happens to 'wanted babies' as well.

[Sava]

Not to speak about the mothers who are frustrated after the abortion, and feel guilty for the rest of their lives, that's not good for society as well.

My mother had an abortion. She doesn't regret it one bit. My parents were at a time in their lives when they couldn't afford to give a child a good life. Abortion is a decision that should be between a mother, father, and doctor... or mother and doctor in the case of rape, incest, dead-beat dad, etc... NOT the government.

[Jack_www]

fetus has the same rights as every other human. It is a human life and has the right to live. Why does a fetus have less rights then say a retarded person. And how can you say a fetus is not self aware? What proof do you have?

[Jack_www]

Originally posted by Sava
My mother had an abortion. She doesn't regret it one bit. My parents were at a time in their lives when they couldn't afford to give a child a good life. Abortion is a decision that should be between a mother, father, and doctor... or mother and doctor in the case of rape, incest, dead-beat dad, etc... NOT the government.

Their is adoption. Many childless couples that would want to have a baby. Why do people feel they have the right to end a life because they think they cant take care of it? If someone killed their pet because they said they could not take care of it they would be charge with a crime, but I guess a fetus is lower then even an animal in your eyes.

[Sava]

Jack... there are hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of kids already awaiting adoption. If there were no abortion, there would be 40 million more unwanted children. It's humane to end the life before birth rather than to put children in some failing institution.

[Jack_www]

Originally posted by Sava
Jack... there are hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of kids already awaiting adoption. If there were no abortion, there would be 40 million more unwanted children. It's humane to end the life before birth rather than to put children in some failing institution.

If my parents could not take care of me, and had a choice I would want to be born and not aborted.

[Sava]

I would want to be born and not aborted.

so?

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by CyberShy
An unwanted baby will most obviously still been loved.
It's still your child.

This highly depends of the circumstances. Some mothers may be able to overcome the difficulties that come with an unwanted baby, and some others do not.
There are mothers of unwanted kids who treat them like ****, as a form of petty revenge towards the father; I hardly call these often violent mothers "loving".
There are mothers who cannot raise their kids/give them love because they have to work too much to have both ends meet. Yes, giving love to a child is work and takes time, although many people seem to think loving a kid is enough. Abstract love is not enough, the kid must recieve real manifestations of this love (as mundane as changing the diapers, or as great as spending a few hours raising its morale after a personal failure) etc. Too many mothers are not in the material situation to satisfy this need.

I agree things can go sour with wanted babies too. But that's no reason not to give a choice to the mother.

[Shi Huangdi]

"An unwanted baby will most obviously still been loved.
It's still your child."

How is this relevant? Does someone not being loved take away their right to life?

[Zylka]

Originally posted by St Leo


So, do you agree that cows are human and self-aware because they have brain waves?

Sorry

A - A cow is indeed self aware. I'm not the one who defined that as terms for being homosapien, in any case
B - A human fetus is NOT AN ANIMAL. Is this too advanced for you, or are you simply playing evasive semantics to trick yourself as well as the opposition?

End of discussion (unless you'd like to describe what defines "human self awareness"? Didn't think so.)

[Mordoch]

Originally posted by Zylka


Sorry

A - A cow is indeed self aware. I'm not the one who defined that as terms for being homosapien, in any case
B - A human fetus is NOT AN ANIMAL. Is this too advanced for you, or are you simply playing evasive semantics to trick yourself as well as the opposition?

End of discussion (unless you'd like to describe what defines "human self awareness"? Didn't think so.)

YOU'RE the one who insists on making this distinction. I would argue that many animals have more sophisticated thought processes than fetuses do at 3 months. (I.E. Chimpanzees and Dolphins.)

[Atahualpa]

Whats the difference between a fetus and a tumor?

That it chews on its fingers ?

[Atahualpa]

If my parents could not take care of me, and had a choice I would want to be born and not aborted.

You would not be in the position to make demands when you are completely unable to survive on your own

What if your mother would die at your birth? What if Bush was your father, would you then still like to be born?

[Zylka]

Originally posted by Mordoch

YOU'RE the one who insists on making this distinction. I would argue that many animals have more sophisticated thought processes than fetuses do at 3 months. (I.E. Chimpanzees and Dolphins.)

Actually I'm not. Rather than simply denying, I'm attacking an irrelevant distinction made by someone else:

Originally posted by Chegitz Guevara

A severely handicapped person still has one thing a fetus doesn't, self-awareness.

Try reading all of the replies, next time.