Team Info and Contacts - PAL

[Dreylin]

Regarding their CS & HBR trade suggestion; let's not rule it out, but we obviously have to point out to them where we are currently going. Something like:

Pal,

We thank you for your offer to renegotiate our CS trade arrangement to include HBR from your side, however at this time we are not sure what we would be able to offer in exchange.

Our immediate domestic priorities are to get Cats & Jumbos going, so Maths, HBR & Construction are our likely next three techs. We believe you have already traded in Construction, so in the near future the only remaining tech we will be in a position to offer to complete the CS deal will be HBR.

(of course they may be trying to use HBR to replace CS from their side).

The other card we have in reserve is Philosophy, should we decide to go with the tech bulb option...

[ruff_hi]

another short message from PAL ...

The update on this issue is we can cancel our deal with banana and give you Ivory in 3 turns.

[sunrise089]

Hmm...well I'd prefer to get Ivory now (and therefore maybe interrupt some Imperio builds), and any of the recent drafts above seem good, but if we don't want to push Imperio much I suppose 3 turns isn't too long.

[regoarrarr]

But they're not offering to interrupt Imperio's ivory, right? The way I read it is that they have multiple sources of ivory and are going to continue to give some to Imperio

[sunrise089]

But they're not offering to interrupt Imperio's ivory, right? The way I read it is that they have multiple sources of ivory and are going to continue to give some to Imperio

Right, but we've never been proposing they permanently cut off Imperio's source. Basically PAL has 2 extra Ivory, one for us and one for Imperio. Imperio is currently getting theirs and we're scheduled to get ours in the future (now confirmed to be 3 turns). Our plan was to just swap them, and let Imperio wait 3 turns rather than us.

[Swiss Pauli]

Seeing as it's only 3 turns, and that PAL won't want to cancel the deal with Imperio, I suggest we accept their offer (and save the favour they owe us for another time).

[Swiss Pauli]

I told PAL that their proposal about the Ivory was OK, and sent them this on their tech proposal:

Hi PAL,

Thanks for the proposal. The stumbling block for us was Imperio's refusal to trade us Monarchy or Maths (in spite of reminders, offers in-game, etc.). However, we think we'll only be a turn or two later at max on the agreed trade date for HBR.

If you would research HBR yourselves, then we'd still need to get Construction before we can learn a tech to pay you back because of the threat we face from Imperio. So, in the end, it might be easier to stick to the agreed deal. What do you think?

[Zeviz]

The note looks good, thanks for replying to them quickly.

I agree that at this point we might as well save the favor they owe us until the time our metal gets disconnected.

[Swiss Pauli]

I think the time is right to broach the issue of meeting Banana, although I don't think it's worth asking for passage through their empire:

Hi again PAL,

We're coming back to you about the possibility of you allowing us to meet Banana. We understand that you may not be keen for us to travel through your lands to meet them, but would you be willing to let them sail a workboat through your waters to meet us outside of your territory?

[ruff_hi]

from PAL ...

SP,

We will finish Civil Service next turn and give it to you. Bureaucracy might boost your research a little.

So I am reading your messages to mean that you are currently teching math, next you will tech HBR, and then construction? The team keeps bugging me for an actual ETA and this is all I have to tell them. I want to make sure it is accurate.

thanks,
cres

Its going to be hard for them to give us CS next turn.

[mostly-harmless]

Don't send the Banana mail. We would rely on Banana to take some action, which we can't even tell them. We want our units to pass through PALs lands.

mh

[Swiss Pauli]

Nuts. We're going to have to come clean to PAL, so can someone post an actual ETA on Maths and HBR assuming Imperio don't go for the trade.

[Dreylin]

We have still not discussed our option to offer Philosophy (bulbed from GS) as part of a trade. If they added HBR from their side and we added Phil, how does that affect our relative beakers?

(also posted in Great person thread)

Edit: Aesth+Lit+Phil = 1300 vs. CS+HBR = 1050

[Zeviz]

Can somebody with access to game post our ETAs (at even budget) for Math and HBR?

[Sullla]

Certainly.

Math (357 beakers): Currently, we make 51 beakers/turn at 50% science, which is -1gpt. I'll use this as break-even rate for now. Factoring in the pre-req bonus for Math (x 1.2) and the fact that three other civs know the tech (x 1.15) we get:

51 + 1 = 52 * 1.15 = 59.8 -> 59 * 1.2 = 70 beakers/turn

So figure 5 turns total for Math, since we will pull in a few extra beakers from growth (and can run a little deficit research). Maybe 4 turns if we really push it.

Horseback Riding (357): You'd think this would take the same amount of time to research, but we get less bonus beakers (only one other civ, Imperio, knows it). So:

51 + 1 = 52 * 1.05 = 54.6 -> 54 * 1.2 = 64 beakers/turn

5.5 turns of reseach, likely another five with some deficit research.

Keep in mind, however, that we will land Bureaucracy as soon as we get Math, plus we will land a Great Scientist in 7 more turns (6 for the purposes of this example, since that's counting our last turn on Monarchy research). Academy + Bureaucracy would drastically speed up our overall research rate; a rough estimate from this turn has us going from 24/turn in the capital (at break-even) to something like 55/turn in the capital, and that's not factoring in extra cottages or city growth!

Of course, Imperio can make this immensely easier for us if they agree to our offered Math trade. If anyone sees them in game, please ask them about it.