Team Info and Contacts - PAL

[Zeviz]

So we should send PAL a note saying that "unless Imperio sells us Math, our ETA on Math (when we can buy CS) is 6 turns, and our ETA on HBR is 5 turns after that, but could be less due to CS boost".

PS Can we just offer Imperio the trade in game, and hope their turnplayer gets greedy?

[Swiss Pauli]

@Zeviz - we already offered Aesthetics for Maths in-game and they turned it down We can do so again, but I dount it'll work.

How about this:

Hi PAL,

The situation is as follows: we're about to complete Monarchy, so if we research Maths next we'll have it in 5 turns from now (or CS +4). If we switch to HBR next, then it should be finished in 6 turns (i.e. CS+5). We have a GS due in 7 so the time for the 2nd tech will come down by a turn or two.

The best path for our Civ is to go Maths then HBR, but to hold up our side of the deal we'd have to switch the order which would mean we can only get CS from you in ~10 turns.

Sorry for giving you the wrong info the other day: we thought relations with Imperio had improved enough for them to trade us Maths, but this turned out not to be so.

I'm clearly relying on them having mercy on us, and letting us go for Maths. This might be the time to use the horses trade if they push us to go HBR next, but I think we should let them come back with a counterproposal.

[Dreylin]

Swiss,

Our original proposal was:

T-5 = Aesthetics
T = Literature for CS
T+5 = HBR

which has since turned into apporoximately:

T-5 = Aesthetics
T+3 = Literature for CS
T+8 = HBR

what you're offering amounts to:

T-5 = Aesthetics
T+3 = HBR
T+8 = Literature for CS


The lengthened ETA actually leaves us down in beakers longer than them. I don't see that we need to suggest that we could change our research order, merely inform them of our anticipated research timings.

[mostly-harmless]

Yes, I agree with Dreylin. We go Maths next than HBR. In the unlikely event that we get Math from Imperio before we go HBR directly.

I also don't see the need to inform them about our Gscientist and how we are planning to use him.

mh

[Swiss Pauli]

Swiss,

Our original proposal was:

T-5 = Aesthetics
T = Literature for CS
T+5 = HBR

which has since turned into apporoximately:

T-5 = Aesthetics
T+3 = Literature for CS
T+8 = HBR

This isn't quite right, as the delay to CS is caused by us, so Lit should be handed over on T+0 with CS to us on T+4, and Sulla's best case puts HBR on T+9 (as we don't start these techs until T0 = next turn).

what you're offering amounts to:

T-5 = Aesthetics
T+3 = HBR
T+8 = Literature for CS

And this is off as well, as we won't have HBR until T+5 even if we switch to it next turn.

The lengthened ETA actually leaves us down in beakers longer than them. I don't see that we need to suggest that we could change our research order, merely inform them of our anticipated research timings.

I'm sure PAL are expecting prompt delivery of HBR to go trample some Rabbits, so I imagine our backsliding will leave them a little peeved.

[mostly-harmless]

I'm sure PAL are expecting prompt delivery of HBR to go trample some Rabbits, so I imagine our backsliding will leave them a little peeved.

And that is in our interest. We don't want those Rabbits to die.

mh

[Swiss Pauli]

But we need our only tech trading partner more than we need Rabbits to survive...but, anway, how about this:

The situation on T107 is as follows: we're about to complete Monarchy (T108), and we'll have Maths in 5 turns from now (T112). HBR should be finished in a further 5 turns (T117).

As we need Maths for you to trade us CS you won't be able to do for a few turns. We'll hand over Literature next turn as planned.

Sorry for giving you the wrong info the other day: we thought relations with Imperio had improved enough for them to trade us Maths, but this turned out not to be so.

[sunrise089]

That looks fine to me...it's a pity none of the alternatives (Imperio trade, Philosophy bulb) have worked out.

[Swiss Pauli]

If it's generally accepted, by the team can someone send this out today as I'm off out. Ta.

[Sullla]

Do we want to ask PAL to lean on Imperio, as far as trading us Math? (Like, agree to RB's offered trade or we cut off your ivory.) I know that's a sign of weakness and all, but they seem to have some influence with Imperio - worth a shot? Or really, really dumb idea?

Think of this as a brainstorming idea, where there are no stupid questions, just stupid people.

[Zeviz]

The last line makes it sound like we lied to them. I'd rephrase it as follows:

"The delay hurts us as much as it hurts you, but Imperio's refusal to accept any deal for Math leaves us no other choise."

PS Crossposed with Sulla. Sulla, is this what you were thinking of, or did you want something even more direct?

[sunrise089]

I read Sullla's post as more direct and probably not worth it. If we could write PAL's message for them AND if Imperio responded quickly to emails I would support it, but the message filtering through PAL and then into Spanish coupled with the inevitable delay make it not worth it in my opinion.

[Dreylin]

I like Swiss's message, with Zeviz's tweak.

@Sullla, last time we discussed revealing the full situation re: Elephants, etc. the consensus seemed to be that we shouldn't show our full weakness to Pal. I would personally have preferred we were more direct with them before now about our need for them to cancel the Ivory deal, but that boat has sailed. At no point did they even seem to consider cancelling their deal with Imperio, so I can't see them going as far as to push Imperio on our behalf.

We did sell them previously on delaying their trade with Imperio, but how did that affect relations between the two teams ... maybe they consider themselves on the edge with Imperio and unable to exert much pressure.

I really don't see that we're going to be able to leverage Pal against Imperio on this occasaion.

[Zeviz]

We need to send something quickly, so can somebody send them Swiss' message with my change?

[ruff_hi]

I just sent the following ...

PAL,

The situation on T107 is as follows: we're about to complete Monarchy (T108), and we'll have Maths in 5 turns from now (T112). HBR should be finished in a further 5 turns (T117).

As we need Maths for you to trade us CS you won't be able to do that for a few turns. However, we'll hand over Literature next turn as planned. This delay hurts us as much as it hurts you, but Imperio's refusal to accept any deal for Math leaves us no other choice.

Team RB

I hope that is how everyone wanted it .