Team Info and Contacts - PAL

[ruff_hi]

Do we want to 'waste' our horses favour by asking for gems or phants later on? I vote phants.

[sunrise089]

Phants.

[Zeviz]

Elephants later.

[Zeviz]

Have we sent them anything? If not, we should send the message we've agreed on:

Guys,

I hope you got full use of our horses to squash those barbarians. For now, we've canceled the deal in-game. However, we'll be happy to continue providing you with horses in exchange for some other mutually agreed-upon resource.

Cheers,

Team RB

[Zeviz]

Accidental doublepost.

[Swiss Pauli]

Not sure we agreed on the message, but seeing as PAL have their own horses then there's no point sending the message anyway.

[regoarrarr]

How about this tech trade?

Our ETA for Civil Service (1144 beakers) is about 8 turns.
We would ask in return:
Drama 429 + Aesthetics 429 + Literature 286 = (1144)

The beaker value is the same. We know in the past, when Tony ran the
trades, we have given Realms more beakers than we have received. PAL
has proven trustworthy to Realms. We are under new management, but
operating with the same principles.

We would prefer to make the trades if/when each tech becomes
available. You guys get CS as soon as it is done, and we can start
using the tech you have now before CS is done.

Note: We are not actually so keen on drama but I think it's the only
tech that lets the beakers add up correctly. We would be willing to
take another tech and then be in debt to you in the next round of
trades.

thanks for your time.
crescentfresh

Email received from PAL

[sooooo]

Hmm, well bureaucracy would be very handy for us. We cannot get CS before getting mathematics however.

Do we need drama? If not we could suggest another tech. I cannot remember if we were aiming for music.

[mostly-harmless]

Interesting eMail.
For a start they remind us on the beaker imbalance of past trade. What was our take on that? Did we not feel they have blown that with that Imperio trade they did? Can't remember.

Secondly they want our part of the supposed deal as soon as it is available. Basically Aesthetics now, Literature next turn. Now this is obviously no-no. They might be this close to connecting up their own marble and they are industrious. Unless we are 10% sure to land the Great Lib, we simply cannot give away Literature. The same is true for Aesthetics at the moment. With their Great Lighthouse boosted research they might research Literature themselves quick enough.
We are also falling behind in production (city size = tiles worked) due to our lack of happy resources.
So at the moment we cannot agree to the deal as it is laid out for us.

Drama would be huge for us with cheap theatres (& dyes).

However, Horse Back riding might be more acute right now.

mh

[ruff_hi]

why don't we reply with a 'yes' in principal (we should check back on the beaker situation - that should be pretty easy with the stats that our historian keeps) but say that 'we aren't ready to trade this just now' - basically telling them that we are chasing a wonder.

When would we be happy to trade ... the turn GLib is finished? The turn before?

[sunrise089]

Ok, here are my thoughts:

First, I think the tone of the email is fine. I find it more friendly than anything else.

Second, I love this trade offer - we get an important tech and they get nothing. The problem is whether they're still interested in the trade if we land GL. I see a couple methods to still make the trade work while preserving GL for us:

1) They only say they "prefer" to get the techs now, not that they require it. We can simply say that since the beakers are the same we want to do the trade during 1 turn.

2) We can offer them a better tech to sweeten the deal slightly in exchange for turning down the "trade as techs become available" option. For instance we can offer them Horseback riding, or something else we want before Drama. This only makes sense if we don't want to priortize Drama for our own reasons though.

3) We find some way to agree to the trade but drag our feet on the implementation. If we can push back trading each tech for just a turn or two we can almost certainly still land GL, right? @Ruff - how many turns do we need to delay the Lit trade to make sure we land the wonder? @All -Is there any way we can offer them Lit 2 turns after we finish it that sounds remotely believable from a diplo standpoint?

[ruff_hi]

The latest GLib plan (sans Maths) is T106. T105 was possible but we had to perform some MM on T99 to land that. With Maths, it is T104.

How many turns delay - no idea. They have maths (right Mr Spy?) and they could finish it very quickly. I would just flat out say that we will trade, but only when the GLib is gone. Lit doesn't provide anything of immediate value and they should be too off put by us delaying the trade.

[T-hawk]

I don't know. I have a hard time trusting PAL after the Monarchy fiasco. I don't buy that the "new management" will act any differently. I'd put a fair chance that we give up Aesthetics and/or Lit and then never see anything in return.

And definitely do not trade Lit until _after_ the GL is completed. PAL is savvy enough to pre-chop the wonder in a single turn, like we were planning ourselves.

[sunrise089]

I think it is very unlikely PAL will withhold Civil Service. GL is another matter. However I just spoke with CrescentFresh and he mentioned that the trade could be any combination to techs, just that the three he picked added up to the right beaker cost. I didn't get the vibe that he was trying to get Lit ASAP.

[Zeviz]

We can't afford to refuse this trade, because PAL is going to trade with others whether we like it or not. However, we should not sell Aestetics before we sell it to Imperio, and shouldn't sell Literature before we have GL.

We can simply say that we prefer to execute all trades simultaneously. We can even say that Rabbits accused PAL of violating a NAP, so we have to be more careful making long-term deals with them. (This line will also remind PAL of diplomatic cost of breaking agreements.) If I am not mistaken, delaying the trade until they have CS should give us enough of a head start on GL.