Team Info and Contacts - PAL

[mostly-harmless]

I am 99.9% sure I have a screenshot of the trade screen showing horses for PAL. Unfortunately I am not in front of my CIV machine for the next 24 hours.

Yes, Ruff. A message like this would be very good.

mh

[Swiss Pauli]

I don't see the relevance of whether PAL lost horses to this discussion. Seeing as they only asked for a short-term loan, we can assume they had some. What they do with them is their business. What do we say if they want them for trade? No deal?

[regoarrarr]

Originally posted by Dreylin
Given their offer of Mono-CoL to make up for the botched Mon deal, it seems a bit much to ask them for two caveats from this deal.

Well I don't think they can get much (Any?) credit for the mono-col deal, since that is just to fix their own problem.

To me, that makes us even.

But I'm fine if the team doesn't want to put the no trade of CoL caveat in there - just thought I'd bring it up.

Assuming that Imperio has enough to trade for CoL - does C&D know when they're likely to have Math?

We could ask them as part of the message if they have any deals in place to trade CoL

[mostly-harmless]

Imperios last tech researched was on T85 according to my notes.

mh

[ruff_hi]

sent them this ...

RB Team still discussing. Someone asked 'what happened? didn't they have horses?'. So, what did happen (if you want to share)? It sounds like you are under attack and need to build some chariots pronto. Is there anything else that Team RB can help with (excluding the horses that is currently under discussion)?

Team RB

[ruff_hi]

Options

I think we have a concensus to lend them horses. This deal can be terminated at any time by them trading horses back to us - no need to wait 10 turns.

We are currently discussing two riders (pork barrel politics anyone?)

1) no trade of CoL to other Civs for 10 turns
2) future trade of Phants (assuming that we would specify when we want to call in that chit)

I am voting YES to horse trade and rider #2

[Sullla]

Originally posted by regoarrarr
A thought I had while in the shower this morning

We agree to trade horses, but with the caveat that they not trade CoL to any other teams for the 10 turns that they have horses.

This would delay the CS slingshot if in fact imperio is counting on a CoL trade

THIS. We need to make sure they don't trade Code of Laws to Imperio. Tell PAL very clearly that we think Imperio is going to try and slingshot Civil Service with the Oracle. And it's not in anyone's interest for that to happen. Tell them that we'll send them the horses for 10 turns, just do NOT trade Code of Laws to Imperio under any circumstances for the next 10 turns.

I can't stress enough the importance of this. Tell them to weigh whatever deals they might have with Imperio against them slingshotting Civil Service with the Oracle.

[ruff_hi]

why don't we offer to trade them the tech we pick up if we land the Oracle?

[Dreylin]

Could PAL also have plans for Oracle CS sling? If they are planning to trade Maths-CoL with Imperio, then maybe they are planning to throw the dice....

[regoarrarr]

Speaking of the tech we pick up if we land the Oracle, the other crazy idea I had in the shower is that it is not impossible that WE could slingshot Civil Service with the Oracle?

Of course at risk of delaying the GL (and also risking not getting the Oracle at all, and not to mention looking like cads to PAL if we tell them not to trade CoL to Imperio so that WE end up slingshotting CS)

But all we need is to research math in the next 6-8 turns - seems possibly doable to me.

Not necessarily advocating this but again, just throwing it out....

EDIT: Just wanted to make it clear that I would try and word our message to PAL in a way that doesn't make it sound obvious that we are going for the Oracle. I mean they'll probably figure it out anyways but we should try and use some diplomat-speak here

EDIT AGAIN: After seeing Dreylin's message that seems possible but kind of risky. And if that was the case, then doing something like this might make sense for them since they can probably research Math faster than Imperio researches CoL?

[Dreylin]

Originally posted by regoarrarr
Speaking of the tech we pick up if we land the Oracle, the other crazy idea I had in the shower is that it is not impossible that WE could slingshot Civil Service with the Oracle?

I suspect it's thinking like this which has meant the Oracle is even still available.

We're in a massive game of Chicken here....

[sunrise089]

Ok,

First we shouldn't delay Oracle or GL to try and slingshot anything...too late for that.

Second, as others have said, PAL is doing us no favors by offering us the CoL trade, since they betrayed us before and are now making up for it.

Third, horses now in exchange for elephant later is fair...remember though we do indeed loose horses for a full 10 turns unless PAL gives them back...which they won't do if they're plotting something underhanded.

Fourth, trumping all of that, is Sullla's point about CoL and Oracle. Therefore let's send a message like this:

"PAL,

We're happy to let you have horses for ten turns, and will offer the trade in game. We also look forward to completing our long-awaited CoL trade next turn.

We do want to notify you of something our intelligence department has noted about Imperio. We believe Imperio is likely to complete the Oracle in the near future, and feel they will attempt to "slingshot" a valuable tech. We feel it is vital that Imperio not gain any further tech advantage by gaining access to CoL in the next few turns. Doing so would offer them the opportunity to slingshot Civil Service, and gain a possibly insurmountable tech lead. Therefore we're asking that in the interest of both our teams' success you not trade CoL to Imperio for any reason for the next ten turns.

-RB"

[regoarrarr]

Do we want to more explicitly tie the horses to the CoL embargo? Also should we bring up the jumbo trade to be named later in this email? Seems like we better rather than just hope they will agree to it when we need them.

[Sullla]

Originally posted by sunrise089 "PAL,

We're happy to let you have horses for ten turns, and will offer the trade in game. We also look forward to completing our long-awaited CoL trade next turn.

We do want to notify you of something our intelligence department has noted about Imperio. We believe Imperio is likely to complete the Oracle in the near future, and feel they will attempt to "slingshot" a valuable tech. We feel it is vital that Imperio not gain any further tech advantage by gaining access to CoL in the next few turns. Doing so would offer them the opportunity to slingshot Civil Service, and gain a possibly insurmountable tech lead. They have already told us they are researching Math right now. Therefore we're asking that in the interest of both our teams' success you not trade CoL to Imperio for any reason for the next ten turns.

-RB"

A message along these lines has my full approval. We don't want to be too demanding of PAL, after all. Trying to tell them that they can and can't trade with other teams is bad mojo, IMO. sunrise's message makes it very clear why trading Code of Laws would be bad for both of us.

I did insert one line above to make it even more explicit, which I think we should include.

[Dreylin]

How does this sound:

"PAL,

We're happy to make our horses available to you, and will offer the trade in game. We anticipate there will be a time in the future when you can return the favour by allowing us to borrow Ivory for a similar period.

We also look forward to completing our long-awaited CoL trade next turn.

We do want to warn you of something our intelligence department has noted about Imperio. We believe Imperio is likely to complete the Oracle in the near future, and feel they will attempt to "slingshot" a valuable tech. We feel it is vital that Imperio not gain any further tech advantage by gaining access to CoL in the next few turns. Doing so would offer them the opportunity to slingshot Civil Service, and gain a possibly insurmountable tech lead. They have already told us they are researching Math right now. Therefore we're asking that in the interest of both our teams' success you carefully weigh any decision to trade CoL to Imperio until the Oracle has fallen.

-RB"

Ties the Horses to the Jumbos, and doesn't go quite a s strong on the Imperio trading.

editted to include Sullla's addition.