Team Info and Contacts - PAL

[Dreylin]

On another note: if we were in the position PAL are in (assuming they have no immediate chance of landing Oracle), wouldn't we try and bargain with Imperio to share in the rewards of their CS sling?

i.e. CoL-Maths now, but we want CS for ***, which we'll research next kind-of thing.


Maybe we should separate out these two responses; send the Horse/Jumbo & CoL trade sentences now, and spend a little more time considering on the later Oracle/Imperio situation.

[Zeviz]

I like Dreylin's suggestion. We have to send a reply now, and we can't demand they break a deal with Imperio as a payment. So we can send two separate messages.

However, speed is the most important thing here, so let's just send Ruff's message. (If even Regoarrarr agrees that we will not refuse horses if they refuse Imperio trade embargo. Making a demand and then backing down is bad deplomacy.)

[Swiss Pauli]

I agree with sooooo. Let's not get too carried away with our demands. We don't know that PAL have made a deal with Imperio for CoL. I think the most likely deal to make would be Maths for CoL.

I think we should send one email as PAL will have CoL next turn anyway:

1. Yes, we'll trade you horses now for however many turns you need them, if you'll loan us Ivory for the same amount of turns in the future to train Jumbos.

2. Have you agreed to trade CoL to Imperio? They've just told us they were researching Maths and they have Marble connected, so it's looking like they may be going for a CS sling. It would be bad for both of us if they pulled this off.

[ruff_hi]

how about we send this now

PAL,

We're happy to make our horses available to you, and will offer the trade in game. We anticipate there will be a time in the future when you can return the favour by allowing us to borrow Ivory for a similar period.

We also look forward to completing the CoL / Mono trade in the next turn or two.

Team RB

... and something about Oracle tomorrow or Sunday.

[Dreylin]

I agree

[regoarrarr]

I guess I'm not seeing all the characterizations of mentioning the trade embargo as a demand. To me, it's more of a gee wouldn't it stink if Imperio slingshotted CS?

[mostly-harmless]

To confuse matters more, I would not nail the deal down to ivory, if we could get iron from them for 10 turns as well.

Leave it open, saying: "Either Iron or Ivory"

mh

[Zeviz]

Or just say "some military resource".

Whatever wording you choose, please send this message as quickly as possible.

PS Regoarrarr, that is exactly what Ruff's earlier draft was saying. When you say "consider this information", it's a suggestion. When you say "don't do this", it's a demand.

[ruff_hi]

this email sent ...

PAL,

We're happy to make our horses available to you, and will offer the trade in game. We anticipate there will be a time in the future when you can return the favour by allowing us to borrow Ivory (or other military related resource) for a similar period.

We also look forward to completing the CoL / Mono trade in the next turn or two.

Team RB

[Sullla]

I will log in and offer PAL horses in-game, as stipulated.

I don't understand, for the life of me, why we didn't mention Code of Laws trade/possible Imperio Civil Service slingshot though. I regard that as VASTLY more important than a future ivory trade.

PAL will be discovering Code of Laws in less than 24 hours. We should assume the worst - they could trade it to Imperio immediately, for all we know. Can we please get a message off to them ASAP telling them not to do this?

We can even flat-out tell them we will share the rewards of Oracle with them, if they agree not to send Imperio Code of Laws. I see Imperio slingshotting Civil Service right now as a game-winning move. We must try to prevent that at all costs.

[ruff_hi]

totally agree Sullla ... but there is mass argument over some of the wording in the final sentence ...

Here are the two versions that we are discussing ...

A
We do want to warn you of something our intelligence department has noted about Imperio. We believe Imperio is likely to complete the Oracle in the near future, and feel they will attempt to "slingshot" a valuable tech. We feel it is vital that Imperio not gain any further tech advantage by gaining access to CoL in the next few turns. Doing so would offer them the opportunity to slingshot Civil Service, and gain a possibly insurmountable tech lead. They have already told us they are researching Math right now. Therefore we're asking that in the interest of both our teams' success you carefully weigh any decision to trade CoL to Imperio until the Oracle has fallen.


B
We do want to warn you of something our intelligence department has noted about Imperio. We believe Imperio is likely to complete the Oracle in the near future, and feel they will attempt to "slingshot" a valuable tech. We feel it is vital that Imperio not gain any further tech advantage by gaining access to CoL in the next few turns. Doing so would offer them the opportunity to slingshot Civil Service, and gain a possibly insurmountable tech lead. They have already told us they are researching Math right now. Therefore we're asking that in the interest of both our teams' success you not trade CoL to Imperio for any reason for the next ten turns.

You will notice that there are two differences ...

'carefully consider' v 'not trade'
'until Oracle' v 'next ten turns'

Options

A - carefully consider + until Oracle
B - carefully consider + next ten turns
C - not trade + until Oracle
D - not trade + next ten turns

I know that we haven't had a poll for a while - should we?

My preference is ... A.

[ruff_hi]

Just thought of a 3rd option ...

"Therefore we're asking that in the interest of both our teams' success you join with us in attempting to stop Imperio slinging into Civil Service."

just trying to muddy the waters

[Dreylin]

Well I'm glad we've separated the two, but agree we need to mention CS sling now.

From a choice of A-D or 3, I think I favour 3 as it leaves all sorts of things up in the air ... maybe PAL are going for the Oracle themselves and we can share in their rewards....

edit: did PAL whip multiple pop off one city this turn, or just multiple cities?

[mostly-harmless]

Multiple cities were whipped as the point decrease occured sequentially.

mh

[Swiss Pauli]

Right then. I exercised captain's prerogative and got the ball rolling on the CS Sling, in an email entitled 'Urgent!':

Hello PAL,

Have you agreed to trade CoL to Imperio? They've just told us they were researching Maths and they have Marble connected, so it's looks like they're going for a CS sling. It would be bad for both of us if they pulled this off.

Can you get back to us ASAP on this?

Thanks,

Swiss Pauli

It may be too late to make a difference, but if they have agreed a trade I would suggest to them the following: dial down research to zero, and contact Imperio telling them that barb problems mean they need to upgrade two warriors, as well as getting horses from us, so the trade will be delayed.

We can hope the trade delay leads to Imperio abandoning the CS sling for a lesser tech (Feud/MC). There's always the chance that PAL doesn't agree that Imperio's CS Sling is gamebreaking for them.