Diplomacy Thread

[ruby_maser]

With Neu Dem's contacts, they are bound to believe they could recoup any losses from a deal with us by trading it with other nations.

I agree with Ada that we should not rush this deal and lose out on the opportunity to techwhore ourselves.

Maybe we could tell them we have acquired Masonry on our own-- we will get it eventually anyway from other nations. Tell them it would no longer be in our best interest to make the trade, but don't tell them how we got it. We can then stall so as to make contact with other nations, keep the value of Alphabet high, come up with a better all around deal by techwhoring, and avoid the political pressure they would put on us to make the deal now. Who knows, Neu Dem may make an offer of some other techs in the meantime; we are fairly sure they have a tech lead anyway.

[astrologix]

The question is : can we evaluate how long we'll get to contact other civs ?

If it's matter of max. 3-4 turns, maybe we should delay this deal.

Perhaps I've missed something, but could we have an updated thread with the status of all the current deals and intentions with/to the other civs, please ?

[pikesfan]

People talk of techwhoring Alphabet but I don't think we have a long window of opportunity to do so. Alphabet is a first level technology and so easy to choose to be the next to research. We have only met one civ so far and I think T.E.G. is going in the wrong direction if we want to meet more. By the time we meet others, it may be too late to trade it, let alone techwhore it as more people will have already discovered it.

This deal may be the best we can get.

[adaMada]

Astrologix,
If you look at the minimap, you'll see that GoW is only a short distance (twelve tiles or something?) above ND. I believe they said (in the past) that they'd be willing to meet us half way. Meeting them would be more than three or four turns, but is a very achievable goal.

I am personally unsure as to our intentions with GoW. Early in the game, my primary goal was to set us up to become early allies, with the viewpoint that it's easier to become enemies from friends than friends from enemies. I believe we are in a good position to ally with them against our surrounding nations, but there is a good deal of resistance against any such proposal -- to be fair, resistance with good reason. When Togas comes back, I think our first priority should be to clarify our diplomatic status with other nations. We are in position to become close allies with either GoW or a Lux/ND alliance (assuming one exists) -- which do we feel would benefit us most? Can we control a strong GoW, and (as long as we can avoid becoming their targets) do we need to? Personally, I've had no diplomatic contact from GoW's ambassador, but it sounds like Togas has had a good deal of communication with Ghengis -- though it makes me rather useless , he can comment better than I can at this time.

-- adaMada

[pikesfan]

Originally posted by ruby_maser
Maybe we could tell them we have acquired Masonry on our own-- we will get it eventually anyway from other nations.

Won’t the game itself tell them this is a lie? All they have to do is click on our leader head and say "We would like to make a deal" and check the technology lists and then say "Never mind."

[ruby_maser]

Originally posted by pikesfan


Won’t the game itself tell them this is a lie? All they have to do is click on our leader head and say "We would like to make a deal" and check the technology lists and then say "Never mind."

They cannot see our technology list. Multiplayer diplomacy won't allow that. IIRC, I don't think there is a way for them to verify ANYTHING that we do or don't have; someone correct me if I'm wrong.

As for not being able to techwhore Alphabet, I think we have plenty of time to wait. At this phase, everyone is more than likely concerned with defense, and even if they actually did consider that their biggest priority and research it, that would take a minimum of 20-25 turns to get. Legoland is probably on another continent, too; they won't have the ability to get in the way of us selling it on this continent 'til its too late.

[jdjdjd]

If we have contact with ND in the game, why can't we see the techs they have that we don't?

Sorry, I have just got PTW and need to do some upgrades to my laptop to install - so I can't see for myself.

If they are willing to offer Pottery and Masonry for Alphabet and 15g, on first round, imagine what else they may have? How about Pottery, Masonry and a third tech? or Pottery Masonry and contacts to Lux and/or GW? the ugency then we'll be that we need to right away offer Alphabet to anyone else we get contact for in this deal.

Continue negotiations with another offer they will likely find to high, so they need to make a counter offer. This should buy some time.

I remind, we have a possible offer from Lux to trade mini maps, I await their official offer. Do we want it since we know where they are? or do we want to give the appearance we don't and make the trade? We get the benefit of seeing another civ on their mini map.

They probably would be interested in a tech trade. They have, however, indicated they would not wish to form any alliance at this juncture.

[History Guy]

It not being my job to decide on this, I should like to hear from Arnelos before a response is sent.

My opinion, though, is that if we cannot wean them off this insatiable lust for 15 tonnes of gold, we should make the deal, as is. I sincerely doubt we can "techwhore" Alphabet for very long at all. If we do not make the trade, and someone else makes the discovery, we may have simply lost our chance of making anything at all, and indeed strengthened Neu Demogyptica by not making the trade. I think it should be made.

I await the word of Lorenzo Clemente, Acting Despot, or Lord Togas, if he arrives home early, or Senor Dejon, Former Marshal, and new Chancellor.

Hernan de History Guy Calamari
Ambassador to Neu Demogyptica

[adaMada]

Togas/Arnelos/Dejon,
If such a decision (to sell Alphabet to ND and aquire Masonry) is made, please also make a decision on what I should ask GoW for in renegotation (and what I should tell em) -- just to shave some time off the whole process .

-- adaMada

[Arnelos]

Originally posted by adaMada
Togas/Arnelos/Dejon,
If such a decision (to sell Alphabet to ND and aquire Masonry) is made, please also make a decision on what I should ask GoW for in renegotation (and what I should tell em) -- just to shave some time off the whole process .

-- adaMada

Got it. I'm sending an e-mail to Togas about this... hopefully he'll respond with a decision before our next turn (or play the turn himself and decide).

If Togas doesn't respond, I and/or Dejon can give you something to tell GoW.

[Togas]

Decision on the trades:

I have given this a lot of thought over the past weekend while I was away. Here's what conclusions I've drawn up:

We know that Neu Dem started with Pottery & Ceremonial Burial. They now have Masonry, which they likely traded C.B. for with Lux.

We know that GoW wants to trade us C.B. & Alph for W.C. & Masonry. That means they haven't aquired C.B. from Neu Dem yet probably because Neu Dem already found W.C. in a hut and already aquired Masonry.

The way GoW is talking about ND, it's likely they made a major tech trade with Lux, and all they're missing is Alphabet.

They could find Alphabet, or not. We could hold out and get a better deal from ND, or hold out and trade it to GoW first, then make a better deal. Both of these options seem favorable to me, but there is some risk in each.

Here's what we do:

A) We tell ND that we have just received an offer to buy Masonry for 20g from "another nation" and that we're now interested in Pottery & another tech. See what they can offer. If they make a better offer, we discuss it. Bottom line, we either get a better offer or we DELAY this thing a few more turns for step B.

B) We turn TEG north NOW, contact GoW, and get with the meet-in-the-middle program. The Magyars take care of the western exploration.

C) Our BOTTOM LINE is Alphabet for Pottery & Masonry, but we only accept that if they refuse to go any higher.

I am willing to gamble that in the 3-8 turns it takes us to meet GoW that ND will not get Alphabet. I think it's worth the gamble. I want us to aim for aquiring W.C., Masonry, Pottery, and another tech from ND. If we get Masonry from GoW, I am willing to pay ND a little for the extra tech.

History Guy, please inform N.D. that we have "another offer for Masonry for 20g and that we are exploring it. Please substitute another tech for Masonry." Let us know how they respond.

adaMada, get GoW to send a scout south NOW, tell them we will be coming from just west of the ND capital, following the coastline north in their direction. Get them to comit to meeting us first. Explain to them that we met ND and that we are now debating a trade deal with ND, but that Togas wants to trade with GoW first ... but if we don't meet them soon, Togas will trade with ND first.

--Togas

[Togas]

Diplomacy Policies:

We are to SEEK FRIENDSHIP with all nations initially.

We are to communicate and discuss with them all options for agreements that can be reached. We must be sure not to promise anything, but be positive and be proactive to feel out the other nations. We are weighing them to see who will be the best possible allies in the future.

We are to propose trades generally, but do not commit to any trade or any trade specifics until clearing it with me.

We want to get as much information out of them as possible about who their neighbors are, what techs they will trade, who their enemies are, what they know about the world, etc.

Some specific orders:

DO NOT trade mini-maps with Lux. We don't need to give them any info about our location. We know where they are and that's all we need to know from them. Frankly, I don't even trust them to give us a real map. Lux has earned a failing grade thus far in their diplomacy efforts and I pitty jdjdjd for having to deal with them.

I still want our scout to find and make contact with them, but we will approach them from the east and keep our actual location a secret.

Do not give away the location of any other civ. I have told Legoland that GoW is "North east of them" as it's helped our cause to strengthen their ties to us and make them side with us out of fear of GoW.

You are authorized to publically state that you fear and do not trust GoW to all nations, however, I want to make it clear that *I* do not fear or distrust them any more than I fear and distrust every other nation. GoW is equally dangerous, and perhaps less dangerous than most because of their known nature and pre-imposed limits. I do not want any of you buying into the hype about them, but we will certainly sell the hype to everyone who will listen.

I fear ND the most, but I have a plan for them. This will be posted in the "About Lux, ND, and GoW" thread.

--Togas

[OliverFA]

Señor Ruby_Maser:

Just remember that they cannot see our tech list, but if they can offer us Masonry that means that we don't have masonry.

[OliverFA]

The Great Togas has spoken!

[ruby_maser]

Originally posted by oliverfa
Señor Ruby_Maser:

Just remember that they cannot see our tech list, but if they can offer us Masonry that means that we don't have masonry.

Thank you for correcting me. I don't have much experience with the PBEM diplomacy yet but this makes sense. As it were though, our most-wise leader came up with a good way to avoid the trap.