Diplomacy Thread

[Togas]

I've just sent the email with the mini-map exchange. I'm keeping that a separate deal from the tech exchange as we could meet another nation first and I don't want to invalidate the deal. I prefer that we negotiate with the understanding that the deal is no longer valid if we meet someone else first. It might give them more of an incentive to meet us.

Let's push hard (but politely) for as much as we can, but I do agree that we need Masonry ... let's just be sure not to mention that. Let's, instead, sell the immense value and rareness of our alphabet, and let's hope that we open up a few other trade avenues before Neu Dem sells our Alphabet to everyone else.

--Togas

[Togas]

New email message from Ghengis Farb in response to my email to him about noticing that Neu Dem's score increased. I'm going to just quote it here, but let's keep this to ourselves.

> This turn it just changed. Neu Dem now has the
> highest score of any team.
> You're right about the city. How did you guys know?
> Did you see them get it?

We saw the settler build the city and it was moving
TOWARDS the capital not away from it which is why it
was probably from a hut. They have a spice resource
near them. Do you have an abundance of any luxuries
near you? We have 5 wines and 1 gem."

Comments?

--Togas

[History Guy]

Sounds reasonable to me. They are expansionists, and they have a very persuasive nature, appealing to these nieve barbarians.

As for five wines, it sounds reasonable. I myself have encountered such over-abundance in my own games.

[E_T]

They might have been following the Settler, to try to take it (for slaves) or to find their Capitol...

I have a feeling that ND is South & East of GoW and North of Madrid.

Letus Eta Tamali

[adaMada]

The fact that GoW has an abundant supply of Gems (assuming they're not lying) is rather good, as long as we're trading with them anyway.

On Masonry -- we are only a few more turns away from meeting with GoW (compared to meeting with Neu Dem), should we so desire. Might I suggest we simply wait and get it from them? We'll be able to resell Warrior Code for a much better deal, and we've already signed an agreement with them in this regard. On the other hand, there is the significant issue of if we want to strengthen GoW rather than Neu Dem -- if we plan to go to war against GoW with Neu Dem's help (a war that would have the advantage of Neu Dem serving as a buffer between us and GoW), it would not be wise to give GoW a diplomatic leg up now (even if we come off slightly better from the deal).

I agree that Ghengis is probably not lying about the location of Neu Dem. Even if the merc. deal is just a ruse, they would not want to give it away for so little without gain for themselve -- for if they betray us, we will unmask them to the world as a fraud (as they should know).

Originally posted by DAVOUT
If ND is as we think, they will try to eliminate their greatest treat early, leaving us for later.
But we dont want them to eliminate GW too soon; so, we could tell Ghengis that in case they would be attacked by ND, we would take their side, which is probably true BTW. Our diplomates should be able to get something for that.
The only drawback would be that we get a reputation that the Apolyton teams gang up against foreign teams, which is not good for the game, and for our training.

Without commenting on the idea -- we clearly need to (as a nation) make some broad policy on our relations with others, especially GoW -- I can say that I feel it would be very possible, if not easy, to aquire such an agreement. It seems that Ghengis is for it, and I don't anticipate having much trouble pushing it through Panzer if that's what we want to do.

Originally posted by History Guy
Well, me thinks that you are mistaken in only some areas. If we are the closest to the Chinese, we will be the target of their aggression. I do not think they would honor their word if they wanted to expand. Would it not be a fine tactic to lure us into a false sense of security, and then to break treaty and strike? Realistically, we must remember that they are warmongers. I do not believe that they would be mercenaries unless to do out there and conquer other nations and grow strong enough to be able to destroy rightful Spanish order and replace it with their own madness. And besides, how can we be sure that if they are mercenaries they won't be hired out to fight us?

Hernan de History Guy Calamari the Younger
Diplomat

I do not have trouble believeing that they are mercs because (were I a warmongering nation) I would be a merc. myself -- seems like a fun way to play .

If they are mercs, then we can avoid becoming their targets through agreements and diplomacy. As I've said above, if they are mercs, they won't dare attack us if we have a treaty prohibiting it. If we have a treaty, they won't sign an agreement that would cause them to break it. Obviously, it will be very hard to have a continous non-agression pact, but if we can convince them it is important (perhaps even crucial) to their own interests, I doubt they'll attack us anyway -- even if theyh do honor their agreements, they will not be under obligation to accept every assignment to cross their desks. This could be a good case for waiting to get Masonry from them -- if we want to establish such a relationship, then we should begin so early. The obvious downside is that GoW may see us as a vassal rather than an ally -- a situation that would be equally dangerous to us. In general, however, I believe we can strike a common ground, benefitial to both sides. Yes, it is a little bit like playing with matches -- if we fail, the stakes are very high -- but success could bring riches far beyond what's available by playing it safe, and we can always take precautions.

-- adaMada

[Togas]

Another message from Ghengis Farb regarding Neu Dem:

Those Germans and their blasted Scouts have already
gotten over 12 techs, their way ahead of us and I
would assume quite ahead of your team also. We've got
coast to our west which would put Lux to their east
(your north) or your west(Demogyptia's south).

We should seriously consider a tech embargo against
them or they will be the dominant civ in our area for
quite some time to come.

We have several horse resources near us so we should
be able to field some chariots soon. If your team
researched a tech other than The Wheel we may be able
to swap 3 techs for 3 techs.

12 techs is an exaggeration, but there can be no doubt that they are in the tech lead. We should definately move towards a 2 or 3 tech swap for Alphabet.

We need some discussion on the tech embargo idea. My primary concern is that Neu Dem has access to trade partners we do not and can further techwhore Alphabet, should we give it to them.

They have The Wheel. They're going for horsemen to later upgrade to Riders. We should seriously consider Iron Working.

--Togas

[GodKing]

OK. As we have met up with new-dem, time to think about things. They offer masonry, but what for? We know we can get it from GoW cheap......

[E_T]

The high number of techs could be from not only the huts, but from trades with Lux.

I see a ND/Lux alliance brewing.

We still have no Idea where Vox & GS is.

E_T

[ruby_maser]

I say, if GoW is interested in a tech embargo, we should talk to Vox when contacts are made. If everyone in contact with Neu Dem is in agreement about it, we can use this to our advantage in negotiations with Neu Dem. We could say we consider their tech lead to be unbalancing and would have no choice in the matter unless they make concessions to assist us such as: recognition of border claims we would like to make (maybe the northern jungle) or better trade deals.

At any rate, I think we should be cagey about a tech embargo. We are not as hemmed in as GoW; we have space to breath and should consider ourselves lucky in these regards. We should lobby other nations to do their best to continue to hamper their development.

[E_T]

Originally posted by ruby_maser
We are not as hemmed in as GoW; we have space to breath and should consider ourselves lucky in these regards.

As far as we currently know.

We might have GS or Vox SW of us, but it's looking like Vox might be on another contenent, off the East Coast and the GS is either with them or with Lego.

That might be one reason that they aren't trading mini-maps, because won't find them for a Gametime while.

It would really be a hoot if Lego was all by themselves until at least the late Anchient (SP) Era.

E_T

[ruby_maser]

Originally posted by E_T
We might have GS or Vox SW of us, but it's looking like Vox might be on another contenent, off the East Coast and the GS is either with them or with Lego.

I was under the impression that we had already located Vox to our north.

[GodKing]

No ET, that would mean that they are in the best position to win this game in the long run. I would much prefer that they are surounded by all evil and mean tribes so as to keep them buisy while we build up our infrastructure. Now it looks like we have a bit of breathing room, particularly towards the south. I like the idea of doing super REX then starting to kick some arse.

[E_T]

Originally posted by GodKing
No ET, that would mean that they are in the best position to win this game in the long run. I would much prefer that they are surounded by all evil and mean tribes so as to keep them buisy while we build up our infrastructure. Now it looks like we have a bit of breathing room, particularly towards the south. I like the idea of doing super REX then starting to kick some arse.

I would also like to see that, but it's starting to look like that may not be the case. This would mean that we could not go to the aid of Lego very easily (or visa versa).

E_T

[Crousto]

I agree that if we have lots of land available south of Madrid, we should stay neutral in the ancient ages and focus on REXing all the available land while GoW, NeuDem and Lux focus on war (but we should not forget to build a mighty army for later )

[OliverFA]

Like Señor Tamali, I also see an alliance between Lux and ND. Also the messages that Genghis has sent to our great lord Togas might show that GoW is a bit nervous because they see themselves cornered against this Lux/ND alliance.

Let's REX as long as we can, but we should maintain an eye on those three and at the same time try to discover where the other two are. Probably the best for us would be that they were on the other continent with Legoland.