Diplomacy Thread

[Crousto]

Here's a pseudo-minimap I made with Neu Dem 12 tiles south of GoW... If Genghis tells the truth, the TEG warrior should see Neu Dem's borders by moving a few tiles northwards.

[jdjdjd]

If Neu Dem is expansionist and they are as Crousto projected, then we should see them very soon.

But, really, I'm wondering why we haven't seen them yet, or is GF toying with us, or is he misleading us, or does he have false info?

We'll find out soon enough.

I would project that based on Crousto's location of Neu Dem, if GF is not BSing us, that Vox Controli would be almost directly North of Madrid and probably at the NE tip of this continent. Then Lux would be almost direclty West of us and South of Lego. GS then may be at the SW tip of the continent.

Of course its all speculation.

Status on Lux Invicta - nada. Admiral has ignored my PMs. Trip has commented in Togas thread asking to trade in the main forums that he will never trade their mini map. I say F'em (thats Spanish for Filet them, like a squid).

I will continue to look for Admiral in the chats.

[Arnelos]

jdjdjd,

As much as I've been one to say that we shouldn't believe anything GhengisFarb tells us, I honestly don't believe he's lying to us in this case. First, he has no interest in doing so. Second, he DOES have an interest in not lying to us about something so minor. Third, we're pretty sure that GoW must have contacted someone and we're pretty sure that Neu Demogyptica already contacted Lux Invicta. My guess is that Neu Demogyptica is in the unlucky position of being in the middle of the entire continent... surrounded by GoW to the northwest, Lux Invicta somewhere to the northeast or southwest, Legoland to the west, us to the southeast, and Vox Controli somewhere off to the northeast. Only the Gathering Storm team has an entirely unknown location.

My guess is that GoW would just love it if we helped them gang up on Neu Demogyptica. Only problem is whether we actually want to do that... my thinking is no, but it's WAAAAY too early to see clearly if that's a good idea yet.

[DAVOUT]

If ND is as we think, they will try to eliminate their greatest treat early, leaving us for later.
But we dont want them to eliminate GW too soon; so, we could tell Ghengis that in case they would be attacked by ND, we would take their side, which is probably true BTW. Our diplomates should be able to get something for that.
The only drawback would be that we get a reputation that the Apolyton teams gang up against foreign teams, which is not good for the game, and for our training.

[OliverFA]

If ND and GoW are going to war we should team up with any of the sides (presumably GoW because it would be easir to attack ND) otherwise the winner will have a dangerous edge.

The alternative would be to get something from ND in pay for not attacking their back lines while fighting GoW.

[History Guy]

A letter from the Arabian diplomat Picahulu:

Dear History Guy of Spain,

Thank you for your letter. The arabian World greets the proud merchant people of Spain in friendship and looks forward to build up a successful relationship which will be beneficial to both of our civilizations.

The overwhelming majority of Neu Demogyptica has decided to accept your offer and would like to trade Minimaps with the Roleplay team! Please give me your E-Mail Adress and i'll send our current Map to you as fast as possible. My E-Mail Adress is joshija@gmx.net .

We are also interested in the Alphabet and would like to offer Masonry in exchange. Please let me know whether you consider this to be a good deal. As soon as your civilization has researched another technology we would be grateful if you inform us in order to negotiate a deal.

Dear History Guy, i am pleased to tell you that we have sent one of our Scouts - he is called Arne - through the jungle which seems to divide our nations. We are located just north of the jungle and expect Arne to reach the borders of Spain in about five rounds!

We are looking forward to hear from you again and to start trading with your merchants soon!

Yours sincerly,
Picahulu, Chief Diplomat of Neu Demogyptica
---

I see that the trade has already been made. This is very good news indeed, as I think I can make them our allies, and if Glory of War goes on the rampage they will certainly have closer targets with Vox Controli or Neu Demogyptica.

Hernan de History Guy Calamari the Younger
Squid Baron

[Arnelos]

DAVOUT,

I agree with your reasoning except that I think the gang-up on non-'poly charge can be avoided by pointing out the more obvious power dynamics of our situation (which you pointed out for why we'd side with GoW if ND attacked them). If ND attacks GoW, that means they've hopefully left their rear exposed to an easy attack from us. ANYONE, whether from 'poly or not, would be tempted to take advantage of that.

That's the reason why I think ND will be far more peaceful than might have otherwise been the case. Because it seems they have the bad luck to be in the middle, it would be unwise for them to go barrelling after one of their many neighbors, only to be invaded by all of the other ones. It gives them something of a diplomatic advantage, however, if they use their vulnerability to gain allies of convenience... for instance, Lux Invicta (which we believe to be in contact with ND) may want to protect ND if GoW attacks them, as we might as well. If ND is SMART, they'll prey on our fears of a powerful Glory of War to induce us and others to support them if they are ever in danger of being conquered by GoW.

So, in large part, which side in any ND-GoW conflict we side on will depend on the situation. Ultimately, our goal should be similar to England's in the continental wars of Europe... enter only to maintain the balance of power and ensure that our many opponents remain weak and divded rather than conquering each other and creating a more dangerous rival.

If one or another power HAS to be taken down, always attempt to help take down the power which we believe to be the greater threat to long-term stability (GoW, for instance).

[History Guy]

Err...is Crousto's map one received from Neu Demogyptica, or did he make that himself? If not, could Togas instead contact Picahulu and send the maps, and etc.? I myself am no good at that sort of image sending over email (figures...).

Also, I think that message confirms the idea that they had traded with Vox Controli, as they are offering Masonry.

Hernan de History Guy Calamari the Younger

[History Guy]

If a war breaks out, I prefer supporting Neu Demogyptica, because it is my impression that they are willing to trade with us, and become our allies. I think they are trustworthy.

[Arnelos]

Originally posted by History Guy
A letter from the Arabian diplomat Picahulu:

Dear History Guy of Spain,

Thank you for your letter. The arabian World greets the proud merchant people of Spain in friendship and looks forward to build up a successful relationship which will be beneficial to both of our civilizations.

The overwhelming majority of Neu Demogyptica has decided to accept your offer and would like to trade Minimaps with the Roleplay team! Please give me your E-Mail Adress and i'll send our current Map to you as fast as possible. My E-Mail Adress is joshija@gmx.net .

We are also interested in the Alphabet and would like to offer Masonry in exchange. Please let me know whether you consider this to be a good deal. As soon as your civilization has researched another technology we would be grateful if you inform us in order to negotiate a deal.

Dear History Guy, i am pleased to tell you that we have sent one of our Scouts - he is called Arne - through the jungle which seems to divide our nations. We are located just north of the jungle and expect Arne to reach the borders of Spain in about five rounds!

We are looking forward to hear from you again and to start trading with your merchants soon!

Yours sincerly,
Picahulu, Chief Diplomat of Neu Demogyptica
---

I see that the trade has already been made. This is very good news indeed, as I think I can make them our allies, and if Glory of War goes on the rampage they will certainly have closer targets with Vox Controli or Neu Demogyptica.

Hernan de History Guy Calamari the Younger
Squid Baron

We probably don't need their mini-map anymore... I actually trust GhengisFarb to be telling us the truth on the location of ND. That said, I see little harm in ND knowing our location and it might be good for bi-lateral relations with the central power for us to share our mini-map with them. However, since we already know where they are and believe we might contact them ANYWAYS in another turn, it might be best to wait that turn and use the leverage of us already knowing their position to perhaps get another tech out of them (like Pottery?) in exchange for the mini-map if we can. If not, no big deal.

As for Masonry, we need it badly. City walls should be, I have argued, a MAJOR component of our early game military defense against rushes. They are VERY CHEAP and extremely valuable. 'nuff said.

[History Guy]

Quite so. Masonry is something we cannot afford to ignore, and they do want Alphabet badly. I see only the problem of their already astounding culture, which would be further improved by the addition of our glorious Alphabet. However, you are correct, Masonry is very important, and without walls we would certainly be in trouble.

Hernan de History Guy Calamari the Younger
Diplomat

[Crousto]

I made this map myself as Genghis Farb (GoW) told Togas that NeuDem was 12 tiles south of GoW. Now I wonder how does NeuDem know that we're near them? Señor History Guy, did you tell them our position, or could they have learned it from Glory of War?

[Togas]

Alphabet for Masonry is an uneven trade. Alphabet is more valuable as only we and Legoland have it, and Legoland is too out of the way to trade with anyone. Therefore, we have a practical monopoly on Alphabet.

In addition, if Neu Dem gets it, they already have contact with 2 other nations ... GoW & (Lux? Vox?). They will trade it before we can.

Off the top of my head, I would accept a trade of Alphabet for Masonry & Pottery. Or should we ask for a bit more? Discussion, please.

I will contact Picahulu myself and make the map exchange.

--Togas

[Arnelos]

Originally posted by Togas
Alphabet for Masonry is an uneven trade. Alphabet is more valuable as only we and Legoland have it, and Legoland is too out of the way to trade with anyone. Therefore, we have a practical monopoly on Alphabet.

In addition, if Neu Dem gets it, they already have contact with 2 other nations ... GoW & (Lux? Vox?). They will trade it before we can.

Off the top of my head, I would accept a trade of Alphabet for Masonry & Pottery. Or should we ask for a bit more? Discussion, please.

I will contact Picahulu myself and make the map exchange.

--Togas

Togas,

I agree with your reasoning regarding Alphabet being much more valuable than either Masonry or Pottery and us asking for both.

I suppose my point would be that we should package this deal with the mini-map exchange (and thus wait a turn before trading mini-maps so that we can use the leverage of us already having found them to add to this).

Does this work?

[History Guy]

Senor Crousto, I see. I know not how they knew our location, but I must suppose it only comes from a mysterious individual from the north who calls himself Genghis Farb.

Senor Togas, O Great Despot, Magnanimous and Beneficent Ruler, I must say that I feel that we should demand as much as we can (within reason) for Alphabet, if we wish to trade it at all for this early stage. I should like to think of a perfect situation when we have contact with all three civilizations and can make our trades with them then for whatever we ask. Of course, we may not wish to wait too very long.

My mistake, I believe it was Lux Invicta they met, according to the reports (though it could just as easily have been Vox Controli).

I thank you for making the exchange yourself, sir.

Hernan de History Guy Calamari the Younger
Diplomat