Diplomacy Thread

[Nuclear Winter]

I agree with ally GoW.
About Legoland, I believe they have started to be paranoid towards all, and ´maybe they think we want to keep them far from bronze working with evil intents... or they´ve met an evil civ and are researching BW for protection....
[rp][Polaris Winterius] Ahh the little b*stards! We should stap their civ in revenge! Little rats! Backstabbers! [Polaris][RP]They are carthage thanks to us!

[Arnelos]

Legoland is most likely just being slightly paranoid, I agree. Despite our agreement with them, we will still need to earn their trust.

My argument is that earning their trust is worth it.

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btw, I've been reading everything in this thread... just don't have reason to comment a lot. Everyone is doing a very good job

[Arnelos]

As for alliance with GoW, I'm fine with us being "friends" of GoW and I'm even ok with a "non-agreession treaty" with GoW. However, we should know (for ourselves) that if our non-aggression treaty with GoW comes into conflict with our alliance with Legoland, we should side with Legoland. The reason is painfully simple... at least if we and Legoland defeat GoW, we don't have to worry as much about Legoland taking us out next... whereas if we and GoW defeat Legoland, we DO have to worry about being GoW's next target.

It would be a mistake to trust Legoland's peaceful nature TOO MUCH, but I would say that I think they're the ONE TEAM where we can actually earn their trust and use that. No other team will ever let us really earn their trust, I would assume.

[jdjdjd]

I say we trade mini-maps with as many as we can...even GofW....we need to prepare our defenses regardless, and them knowing where we are is not necessarily a bad thing. they may be looking for someone, a non-mil civ like us, to befreind and have as an ally against teams they fear greater.

[ruby_maser]

Have we been clear with Legoland concerning our wanting to trade information about our locations? In Nimitz's letter, he suggested a willingness to trade hemispherical information. Perhaps, he means the same thing we mean.

His letter did not come off as paranoid to me. It seems sensible for them to want to get essential research out of the way prior to our meeting. Also, Bronze Working is critical if they really are beelining for the Great Wall; they are not gonna leave that one to chance. And there is a definite desire on their part not to spend the game beholden to us. Maybe, these are things we should play to in our attitudes towards them. Reaffirm their sovergnity, but hint at a fairly good understanding of their intentions. Venture information about ourselves in good faith.

They have a stated-purpose in this game that we don't have; we are the wild card in the relationship. Arnelos is right about nurturing that trust. It won't come cheap.

[Arnelos]

adaMada, jdjdjd, Nuclear Winter, and myself were just in a chat with Nimitz (on IRC).

Nimitz stated that there were members of his team afraid about giving away their location because they think we'd have an advantage in passing that information on while if they pass on the information about our location, it doesn't really hurt us (since we seem to want to contact everyone anyways).

Now, it's entirely possible (I believe it's partially the case) that Nimitz is using what is likely the objections of 1-2 members of his team and pumping it up a bit to see if he can get any additional concessions out of us.

Nimitz agreed with us that RP Team and Legoland should pursue a "special relationship" due to the higher level of trust that we believe would be possible between our teams than between other teams. He agreed with us (or said he did) that trust between the eams would have to be built through action over words and that taking the risk of letting us know their location was such an action (I think he's at least partially just playing that, but part of it is genuine as well).

The other part of the chat (ongoing through this and beyond) was a long talk about several things, but the main focus was Glory of War. Nimitz and we agreed that Glory of War was a threat, yada, yada, yada. We talked about which teams were more likely to pay for the services of GoW, that Glory of War was a threat precisely because they're something of a chaotic factor in a world where both our teams seem to have an interest in things being nice and quiet (for building), etc, etc, etc. Objectives here should be clear: While much of what I said was in part sincere (I really do think GoW is a threat, a destabilizing factor that needs to eventually be expunged, etc, etc, etc), the point of jointly discussing these thoughts with Legoland was to further the thought from their mind that WE might be seeking an agreement with GoW and hopefully providing reasoning (and even sincere reasoning at that) why GoW is dangerous and Legoland shouldn't be aligning with them.

We talked about a few other issues as well. Not much of amazing relevance before the conversation drifted over to single-player game issues from the Civ3DG.

[pikesfan]

Isn’t it sort of cheating to try to hint to everyone where we were? The Spanish didn’t have any hints that there were Incas below the equator when they sailed across the ocean for the first time.

[ruby_maser]

Originally posted by Arnelos
Nimitz stated that there were members of his team afraid about giving away their location because they think we'd have an advantage in passing that information on while if they pass on the information about our location, it doesn't really hurt us (since we seem to want to contact everyone anyways).

This has got to be a joke or a ploy. There is no way they can expect to win the game by holing themselves up in a corner and keeping contact to a minimum.

I'm not so scared about being knocked out of the game that I would threaten my team's ability to stay competitive. They can't be that stupid

[DAVOUT]

Excerpt from Betahound message :

" The Civilization of Vox Controli sits in the Northern Hemisphere, and from our initial understanding of the world, to the East. (As you appreciate my dear sir, perspective is everything.)"

Does not it look like a puzzle ? The wording let me think that it does not tell what I understood at first reading it.

Their message would be true if they have met a civ west of them: they would be east of such a civ.

Did they used the same trick for the Northern hemisphere ? Or only for one, or even not at all ? In other words, they do not reveal anything which can be used.

[DAVOUT]

It appears that Vox Controli is role playing as much as we do. I would suggest that Togas, when he first met with them, underline this point : we have much in common which makes both of us different from the other civ. And a part of this message could be esoteric (although true) to create a beginning of complicity.

[Togas]

In my only PM to Jon Miller (but I expect that there will be more, in time), I talked about how much I appreciated their creativity and concept and how it's very similar to our roleplay theme.

I don't write PMs to the other leaders very often, if at all. I hope to stress with my occasional "personal contact" with the other leaders that we're taking a special liking to them.

If anyone asks, stress to them that Togas lets the ambasadors do the talking and ONLY RARELY contacts civs on his own, and only when he feels an important personal reason to.

--Togas

[Hot Mustard]

Originally posted by Togas

If anyone asks, stress to them that Togas lets the ambasadors do the talking and ONLY RARELY contacts civs on his own, and only when he feels an important personal reason to.

Good idea. If someone says they had contact with Togas, our ambassadors can say something like, "Oh My! You spoke with the Supreme Leader!? How honored you must be! He very rarely initiates or responds to outside contact - he does so only in matters of great import or personal interest."

[Togas]

Discussion with Nimitz

I had a chat with Nimitz this morning. These are a few things I learned:

They're democratic. They have a poll about trading mini maps with us. They need 4 more votes to pass the plan to trade. Poll should be over by tomorrow.

He claims he came up with the mini-map trade idea for his team and has been pitching it to them.

He feels his team is "Fearful" of too much outside contact at this point in the game. Wants us to "grow trust" at this stage in the game. He feels contact with us is "worth the risk"

He proposed on his own a "mpp idea" where we protect each other. I told him that we'd be happy to agree to something like that.

The team doesn't want to reveal how they got Ceremonial Burial but he "thinks we can guess"

They are located "near the middle of the map" and to the west of us.

He says the continent has a very "interesting shape." They are exploring it, but currently have no warriors headed east (towards us)

He says "you'll see some interesting stuff from Legoland soon. Just watch the demographics"

He mentioned that they're proud that they grew first and fastest. Commented on how their Public Works guys are very good. But won't comment on the actual terrain of Legopolis.

--Togas

[ThePlagueRat]

ooc:

Very good Togas...
This is interesting information indeed. I think this is a great opportunity for us. We could exploit their insecureness by pretending we feel the same or something?

Be somewhat careful with a protection pact.
You could try to negotiate something clever, so that we are secured from losing regards from our allies in Legoland.
None of them knows about our other deals, do they?
In that case, we have to be careful not to lose integrity...

Now I guess TEG can continue heading west,
and we shall be on the lookout for them.

[astrologix]

Be careful,

If Legoland's goal is to be a builder civ, they will focus on a strong diplomacy game to avoid other civs to attack them. They will try to motivate the other civs to attack each other while they peacefully continue to build their empire and take advantage on tech research.

I say :

1. no mpp before we better know our "true" location (not from minimaps, but from own explorers).
2. No alliance with other civs for the same reason.
3. No trade minimaps.

The minimaps from other civs could be false. We don't need minimaps because they don't allow us to trade anything.

From the beginning, we say ourselves that we intend to maintain us as much as possible as an enigmatic team. I think we should keep this line of diplomacy until we really meet other civs.