Diplomacy Thread

[History Guy]

I thank you, Lord Togas, I am glad I have pleased Milord in doing my duties as well as I could.

Hernan de History Guy Calamari the Younger
Diplomat

[Hot Mustard]

If GS doesn't want our minimap, do they already have it from another civ? Our ambassadors should inquire if our minimap has been traded/given to other civs.

If we give them the GoW minimap, we risk irritating a civ that is closer to us than GS (I assume), and that may be an important ally against ND and/or Lux. The Lux minimap is the only one we can trade with repercussions.

[GodKing]

I will offer them the location of Lux, indicating that the others are not available per our trade agreements.

Meshalic is out until the 5th. I will try and PM another member of their team, probably DeepO.

GK.

[adaMada]

I'd advise against giving GS GoW's minimap. We signed an agreement with GoW not to trade away their minimap (and they not to trade away ours). Just as they stand to loose by breaking agreements with us, we also stand to loose a great deal of diplomatic respect by making such a trade. As such, I'd be strongly against it -- even if we can pull it off, we want to become a force through diplomacy, and breaking an agreement could damage us diplomatically far more than this map would help us.

We may not have signed such an agreement with ND when we aquired theirs, so that would be a little better, but I'd still say pretty bad. As long as we want to be everyone's friend, we'd be pushing our luck to start breaking agreements now.

-- adaMada

EDIT: Giving them lux's location is the best option of all. If they're not that friendly in the first place, we might not loose that much. If it were put to a poll, I'd still have to vote no, but if we're making this trade with someone's map, compared to the alternatives, I'm all for it .

[jdjdjd]

Yes, I agree we can send them the minimap of Lux, but lets offer it to them as an "X" marks the spot thing and not the actual minimap. Tell them we risk breaking some kind of agreement with the other civ if we give them the actual minimap, but hold out for their minimap.

Just a thought.

[GodKing]

I will not offer the mini-map. Only their location as we did not aquire it from a trade with them. You are correct ada - we must be above reproach with our diplomicy.

[jdjdjd]

Another interesting thought on the topic of the Alphabet trade .... if we are not on the same continent with Lego, we have a monopoly to trade this mystery to ND, Lux, GW and perhaps VC or GS if they are on our continent.

I think we need to maybe make some kind of coordinated effort to make sure we do not trade it to one before we can get the best trades with the others...i.e. maximize profits on the darn thing.

[adaMada]

GodKing -- Sounds good . I think we're ok if we give them lux's location and if it doesn't become public knowledge -- we haven't made any agreements with Lux, and I'm guessing they're heading towards being a rather unpopular team if they're giving everyone else the same diplomatic treatment that we're recieving. (Sorry jdjdjd ).

jdjdjd -- I've been thinking about that a bit myself. We should def. hang on to alphabet and try to make the max profit out of it, but considering the very turnbased nature of diplomacy in PTW, how do we stop one team from getting it before the others? (Whoever plays after us) I don't know PTW at all, so perhaps there's an easy way -- get everyone to offer us the deal so we can accept them all at once, perhaps? Anyway, I'll leave that question up to the people who know how PTW works .

-- adaMada

[Togas]

Jason (Ghengis Farb) of GoW sends me short messages with each save. He sent a much longer one to me on Friday which I did not respond to until today:

Those Germans and their blasted Scouts have already
gotten over 12 techs, their way ahead of us and I
would assume quite ahead of your team also. We've got
coast to our west which would put Lux to their east
(your north) or your west(Demogyptia's south).

We should seriously consider a tech embargo against
them or they will be the dominant civ in our area for
quite some time to come.

We have several horse resources near us so we should
be able to field some chariots soon. If your team
researched a tech other than The Wheel we may be able
to swap 3 techs for 3 techs.

And my response:

Just got back from my vacation last night. Things are certainly getting interesting. I have told adaMada to send your people an urgent message about meeting up. We need to meet up soon as our nation has met ND and they are making a very good offer for Alphabet. I'd prefer not to enrich them any more than I have to.

Are you guys pinned into a corner? Do you have more land to your west? We're situated on the south-eastern corner of the map and still trying to get a better idea of what is north and what is west of us, but we've found ND in the process of heading towards you guys.

Anyhow, we'll stall negotiations with ND for a few turns but not too long. Have your ambassador get back to ada ASAP and send someone south along the western coastline to meet up with our warrior who will be headed north.

Also note: We have researched Bronze. If you don't have that, we could have a very profitable 3 for 3 trade ... assuming, of course, we don't give in and trade with someone else.

--Togas

[adaMada]

EDIT: Nevermind

Togas,
I have indeed contacted Panzer, as shown above, and that message seems to imply that Ghengis would look favorably upon meeting in the middle. Considering that Panzer suggested this once as well, it's rather good news overall. Having said that, I've some bad news -- Panzer hasn't logged on in three days. Considering the season, he may be out of contact. I'm going to check the main forum now for any message about him leaving, but if he doesn't get back to us soon enough, it might be prudent to see if Ghengis is willing to circumvent the normal diplomatic process, and perhaps just directly agree on the issue. Though we want to encourage official communication through official channels, this might be an issue we don't want to wait on.

-- adaMada

EDIT: Panzer JUST logged on. Nevermind .

[adaMada]

Panzer's Reply

Thank you for your message. I will try and convince Ghengis Farb to send a warrior towards your territory. Unfortunatly, We will have to discuss a new possible tech deal because we have aquired ceremonial burial. I hope we can get together a good deal soon, which I hope will encourage friendship between our two great nations. I also hope that we can include a nonagression pact within a future deal so we can live together peacefully. Thank you.

My thoughts:
Warrior Code for Alphabet is basically even. Getting Masonry is trickier, and perhaps I shouldn't have pushed for rejection of that ND deal. I'd still like to keep Alphabet close to our chest, but I wonder if we couldn't effectively get ND and GoW into a bidding war by telling them we would go with the lowest bidder (in gold) on Masonry. History Guy can blame this on some faction of our team should he desire, and I will blame it on the anti-GoW faction I invented when diplomacy opened. Having said that, I'm not sure forcing them into a bidding war will help our relationship with either team, which would be a bad thing in general. Perhaps it would be better to see if we couldn't get GoW to agree to throwing in a bit of cash for Masonry, on the grounds that we'll be buying it from ND if they don't and that they want a tech embargo/nonagression pact from us.

Our original deal:
* Warrior Code & Masonry <--> Alphabet & Ceremonial Burial
--- Deal will change if either group aquires tech
* Minimap <--> Minimap
--- Cannot be retraded
* 50 turn nonagression pact (starting upon contact)

-- adaMada
EDIT: Added everything after the message itself.

[Togas]

New message from Ghengis Farb

Our Warrior has already passed Neu Demo and is heading
your direction. We are on the extreme NorthWestern
edge of the continent with very little room for
cities.

We should come into contact with them very shortly UNLESS they are headed towards the middle of our empire.

--Togas

[Nuclear Winter]

Response from Vox C.
Dear Nuclear Winter.

Hello sir. And Happy Holidays to you and yours. I trust your Christmas Squid was most excellent.

I am writing to respond to your recent correspondence. My apoligies for the delay in getting back to you - but with the holidays and everything - well, I'm sure you understand. I have been authorized by the One Voice to respond to you as follows:

Regarding the trading of mini-maps - I regret to inform you that Vox Controli does not feel it is within the spirit and intent of the game to trade maps. I understand that your esteemed leader, Togas, has made an empassoned plea to the world at large for such an exchange. We feel that it is acceptable to exchange our understanding of where we are in the world verbally - as we have already done - but that the actual trading of maps will require both our civilizations to master that technology, and for us, or at least our representatives, to meet in person in the world.

To this end we are confident that we may meet soon. As previously discussed, Willy the Warrior is headed your way - as far as we can deduce. And you have indicated that you have an explorer headed our way. It can only be a matter of time before our two great nations meet - don't you think?

Regarding the question of favored nation status for trading, we of the One Voice think this to be an excellent proposal. We would like to reciprocate this honor, and when we are in a position to discuss trades, we will extend the same benefit to you. Together, we are stronger.

Now, regarding the matter of the non-agression pact - well, I will be honest with you - this has generated much debate within our civilization. Please keep this quiet, we of the One Voice are often, how shall I put it, not embarassed, but rather self-conscious about our own internal discussions. As you know, we like to speak with One Voice, as is our law and our custom, and yet occasionally the way of the One Voice and our underpinnings of a free and democratic nation grate on one another. This is one of those times. So, I will need to get back to you on this point - the debate continus at home.

Some questions have arisen as to the validity of such a pact in the first place. It may help our debarting process if we knew how you would see this pact working. Is it public to other civs? Does it supercede pacts made within the game? Is it more than just a pledge of friendship, or do you see it stronger than that? No doubt you must have discussed this amongst your people, so if you can share more information, it would be greatly appreciated.

And now to the last point. You have asked for a copy of the One Book. You may not fully appreciate the significance of your request; in fact, many of our leading clerics and scholars took your request as a grave insult. It was necessary to bring to their attention that you are infidels ... er.. poor choice of words .. shall we say un-informed regarding the teachings of the One Book. When this was explained to the clergy, they were somewaht appeased. In their life's work, it is difficult to conceive of different faiths and different understandings from that of the One Word. We, as men of the world, must bring that understanding to them, don't you think.

(end of part 1 of letter. Part 2 follows.)

[Thrumble]

Re: Panzer's Reply

Originally posted by adaMada
Our original deal:
* Warrior Code & Masonry <--> Alphabet & Ceremonial Burial
--- Deal will change if either group aquires tech
* Minimap <--> Minimap
--- Cannot be retraded
* 50 turn nonagression pact (starting upon contact)

-- adaMada

I would think trading with GW would be preferable because (1) they are farther away and pose less a threat to us and more a threat to ND and Lux, (2) we have a 50 turn non-agression pact with them and I imagine that honoring that is a priority for them, and (3) we need to be working to catch up with ND's tech lead not padding it.

[adaMada]

Re: Re: Panzer's Reply

Originally posted by Thrumble

I would think trading with GW would be preferable because (1) they are farther away and pose less a threat to us and more a threat to ND and Lux, (2) we have a 50 turn non-agression pact with them and I imagine that honoring that is a priority for them, and (3) we need to be working to catch up with ND's tech lead not padding it.

I agree that we should at least wait and see what GoW can offer. On the nonagression pact, I'm not sure if it is still valid (considering that part of the deal was nulled), but Panzer already reiterated their interest, and I suspect we can get one when we ask. (In fact, I bet we could get one now if we asked at no charge, though that's just a hunch -- I'm betting they want to focus on ND and Lux rather than us, and (as such) any agreements that allow them to narrow their focus will be welcome).

-- adaMada