Sparta-Angels relations

[Googlie]

Originally posted by Maniac
Btw, if we give them EthCalc, and they research DocLoy, they and the Gaians have IntInt lying open to them, and thus also the CDF.

That, too, had occurred to me. But given that the Maniac Manifesto had suggested a no-build commitment by both to the CN and the CDF, I don't think that it'd be out of line for us to say (if we go along with the Angels proposal) "OK - flex and ethical calculus it is then, but neither the Angels nor the Gaians build the CDF nor the CN, otherwise no deal"

But I think we should just say goodby to the CN and instead focus on getting the MCC built as soon after 2148 as posible.

Let the Angels and the Gaians research Doc Flex and Ethical Calculus themselves.

'Cos if we have to pick just 2 SP's out iof the 3 possibles (CN, CDF and MCC) I'd still go back to what we said in all our strategy discsussions - that the CDF and the MCC are the preferable ones to have

G.

[Snoddasmannen]

Originally posted by Googlie
That, too, had occurred to me. But given that the Maniac Manifesto had suggested a no-build commitment by both to the CN and the CDF, I don't think that it'd be out of line for us to say (if we go along with the Angels proposal) "OK - flex and ethical calculus it is then, but neither the Angels nor the Gaians build the CDF nor the CN, otherwise no deal"

Sounds good to me. We could even make IntInt the second mystery tech. Could we also ask for a small licensing fee for every time they trade DocFlex or EthCalc forward? Say 30ec?

We should also be prepared to take the CN off the table, as Yang will probably build it anyway unless we do (which is not too important imho).

Of course, this should all be pending a meeting with the Gaians. If they intend to fight us, we probably shouldn't trade with the Angels without embargos.

[Maniac]

Otherwise we could just as suggested take the CN off the tabel, and suggest a straight DocLoy<->DocFlex deal, without any trade embargoes or SP restrictions whatsoever.
If we don't make a deal with the Angels, they'll probably switch their research to DocFlex or EthCalc anyway and trade it to the Gaians. So we wouldn't be helping the Gaians get extra crucial techs this way. Meanwhile we would have DocLoy, and thus a leapfrog with the Morganites towards IntInt would take much shorter.

[Googlie]

That's actually not a bad idea - calling their bluff, so to speak (they are maintaining the etxra techs are to offest the embargo on trading anjd SP building), so just remove them, and it is simply. a level-2 for level 2 trade, no restrictions

Whether we actually go ahead and build the SP then becomes a strategic decision untrammelled by thoughts of "we must, 'cos we've invested so much in it"

Maniac - do you want to suggest that?

[Maniac]

If you want me to I can write something in about an hour I think.
Otherwise if you've got time before that, go ahead!

[Googlie]

OK - I can do it

[Googlie]

posted

Posted in the Embassy by Googlie

To: Data Angels

The Junta has deliberated and considered your counter proposal.

The sticking point seems to be the length of any trade embargo, so here is a simplified offer:

**************************************************

The Data Angels will send Doctrine: Loyalty to the Spartan Federation in 2148*, no strings attached on either side

Same year, the Spartan Federation will send Doctrine: Flexibility to the Data Angels, no strings attached on either side

* assuming that this is the year you would research the technology

*************************************************

This will let you execute your leapfrog with the Gaian Union without any constraints set by us - and if the Data Angels or the Gaian Union should happen to beat the Hive to the Command Nexus, that's OK too (at least this offer might persuade the Gaians that we had no "hidden agenda" whereby all along all we wanted was to build the CN - they professed not to have believed us when we insisted it was just an afterthought)

Lieutenant-Colonel Googlie

[Googlie]

They have replied that they are considering the simplified proposal, but have asked:

Posted in the Embassy by Mart7x5
We would like to ask specifically about Ethical Calculus. Is it possible for Spartan Federation to exchange it with Data Angels. What Spartans would consider a fair price or conditions for this technology at this moment?

In the context of this rule (my bold italics):

Extracted from the ACDG3 Rules
If an aggressive probe action (anything except infiltration) is used on a faction you have a truce, treaty or pact with, you must select 'Declare Vendetta' in the dialog box that appears afterwards, and notify the victim of your transgression, unless you have received permission in advance. No notification is required in other cases.

How about:

150 ec's and a commitment never to trade it to the Gaian Union nor your permisson to letting them probe it from you (citing this rule)

[Googlie]

Or, more spcifically:

Ethical Calculus - indeed a key technology for a faction wishing to boom its population, allowing a change to DEMOCRATIC government and the building of Children's Creches.

Our position is simple. The Junta sees 2 alternatives:

1) We will sell it to the Data Angels on the condition that it is never onward traded to the Gaian Union (including a prohibition on the Data Angels pre-approving a Gaian probe operation for it - and should the Gaians successfully probe it from the Angels, the resulting Vendetta between your factions must last at least five years). The price for option 1) is 200 ec's, cash up front.

2) We will sell it to the Data Angels on an unrestricted basis - you are free to do with it whatever you want. The price for option 2) is 500 ec's, cash up front.

Thoughts?

[Googlie]

The turn is with the Gaians. They are prolly fine tuning their leaqpfrog strategy with the Data Angels, who are still waiting for a reply to their query on Ethical Calculus.

Does anyone have any objections to my posting the above suggested reply in the Angel's Embassy? (or a better idea maybe?)

[Maniac]

I checked yesterday with the simulator and after giving the Angels a couple extra techs, their research cost rises to 398. It's of course also dependent on what techs the other factions have, so this number can naturally only be a rough estimate. Still, perhaps with option 1 you could perhaps include the following argument for our price:
"Our social analysts indicate your research cost after acquiring DocMob, SocPsych & DocFlex (but not DocLoy: it would be unfair to increase prices because you'd research a tech we'd like) will rise to approximately 400 labs. In other words, by buying EthCalc from us for 200c you would save 400 labs. You'd save half the cost in energy! We hope you will acknowledge this is a good deal for you indeed. "

[Googlie]

Great observation

[Googlie]

Posted:

Posted in the Embassy by Googlie
To: Data Angels:

Ethical Calculus - indeed a key technology for a faction wishing to boom its population, allowing a change to DEMOCRATIC government and the building of Children's Creches.

Our position is simple. The Junta sees 2 alternatives:

1) We will sell it to the Data Angels on the condition that it is never onward traded to the Gaian Union (including a prohibition on the Data Angels pre-approving a Gaian probe operation for it - and should the Gaians successfully probe it from the Angels, the resulting Vendetta between your factions must last at least five years). The price for option 1) is 200 ec's, cash up front.

(Our social analysts indicate your research cost after acquiring Doc: Mob, SocPsych & Doc: Flex (but not Doc: Loy - it would be unfair to increase prices because you'd research a tech we'd like) will rise to approximately 400 labs. In other words, by buying EthCalc from us for 200 ec's you would save 400 labs. You'd save half the cost in energy! We hope you will acknowledge this is a good deal for you indeed.)

2) We will sell it to the Data Angels on an unrestricted basis - you are free to do with it whatever you want.
The price for option 2) is 500 ec's, cash up front.

[Googlie]

I see we have a deal with the Data Angels - Doc Mobility for Doc Flex, no strings attached

Posted by Mart7x5 in the Embassy
To Spartan Federation,

We would like to thank Spartan Federation for completion of our recent technology exchange. We have received Gene Splicing as planned. We hope that both our factions will benefit from the exchanged advances.

Regarding Doctrine Loyality, we would like to inform you that we are finally in possesion of this technology. We agreed within our faction to proceed according to the counterproposal sent by you for exchanging the two technologies: Doctrine Loyality for Doctrine Flexibility. We will send Doctrine Loyality yet in this MY 2148. We ask you for Doctrine Flexibility in return, as planned. We believe that Spartan Federation will be able to build Command Nexus before Chairman Yang would be able to do it. We also hope that this Secret Project will be very helpful for the Spartan Federation should it be attacked by the Human Hive.

We thank you for the proposal of exchangeing of the Ethical Calculus advance. I have brought it to the attention of our faction members and we presently debate on it.

IT Mart

The counterproposal he refers to is:

Posted by Googlie, in the Embassy
To: Data Angels

The Junta has deliberated and considered your counter proposal.

The sticking point seems to be the length of any trade embargo, so here is a simplified offer:

*************************************************

The Data Angels will send Doctrine: Loyalty to the Spartan Federation in 2148*, no strings attached on either side

Same year, the Spartan Federation will send Doctrine: Flexibility to the Data Angels, no strings attached on either side

* assuming that this is the year you would research the technology

*************************************************

This will let you execute your leapfrog with the Gaian Union without any constraints set by us - and if the Data Angels or the Gaian Union should happen to beat the Hive to the Command Nexus, that's OK too (at least this offer might persuade the Gaians that we had no "hidden agenda" whereby all along all we wanted was to build the CN - they professed not to have believed us when we insisted it was just an afterthought)

Lieutenant-Colonel Googlie

[Maniac]

Wow that's great news! I hadn't expected they would already have the tech this year. Their announcement they possess the technology comes kind of a sudden.
(Which makes me a bit suspicious: Would it be possible they have stolen it from Yang, and would still be able to redirect their research to Ethical Calculus? Though since DocLoy is a 'Conquer' tech, and the Angels focus on 'Discover' (and 'Explore'?), I guess that they should get first get OptComp or so when they try to steal Hive tech.)

Anyway, great news! No need to get needlessly suspicious.