Sparta-Angels relations

[Googlie]

Following Major Kassiopeia's post in the Angels Embassy:

Posted in the Embassy by Kassiopeia
The Maniac Manifesto - Fusion Power by 2160

"The Maniac Manifesto" is a plan for a joint Venture of the Data Angels, the Gaian Union and the Spartan Federation. It is an effort to acquire the following prerequisite technologies for Fusion Power:
- Superconductor
- Pre-Sentient Algorithhms
- Advanced Military Algorithms
- Cyberethics
- Intellectual Integrity
- Optical Computers
- Adaptive Doctrine
- Polymorphic Software

And then finally:
- Fusion Power

This endeavour will require open, direct and frank co-operation between our three factions, with extensive research leapfrogging. The Junta believes that it is possible and conceivable, given the trust and integrity we have observed both in the Gaian and Datatech factions.

The reason for this rather bold and open proposal is the fact that the Morganite faction is spiralling out of control. It has constructed Planetary Transit System and is in the process of effectively doubling or even tripling its population by abandoning and rebuilding bases to gain the boon the PTS gives. We can all attest to the fact that the Morganites are a force to be reckoned with, and the Spartans are willing to give up their slight lead in the tech race to level the playing field with the Morganites.

I have appointed the Spartan Chief of Administration, Lieutenant Colonel Googlie, to act as a special envoy on this matter: he will be conducting official diplomacy by my side, as we feel that one person alone can not organize this extraordinary project between three separate factions.

Yours sincerely, and awaiting for your response,

Major Kassiopeia, Senior Diplomatic Officer of the Junta of the Spartan Federation.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Major Kassiopeia, Diplomatic and Foreign Affairs Officer of the Spartan Junta.

I elaborated further:

Posted by Googlie in the Embassy
To further elaborate:

Fusion has 2 prerequisites: Superconductor (string #1) and Pre Sentient Algorithms (string#2)

Yang will have researched Superconductor in 2154, so that technology can be "lifted" any time therafter

PSA needs Advanced Military Algorithms and Cyberethics

AMA needs Optical Computers (Yang has that) and Adaptive Doctrine, which in turn needs Polymorphic Software (Yang has that) and Doctrine Flexibility (Sparta has that)

So for the first string, we need:

1 probe action to extract Polysoft from Yang and then one of us researches Adaptive Doctrine

1 probe action to extract Opticals, then with AdaptDoc, research Advanced Military Algorithms, then wait for string # 2 to catch up

Cyberethics needs Planetary Networks (we all have that) and Intellectual Integrity, which needs Ethical Calculus (Sparta has that) and Doctrine Loyalty (can have next turn)

So the second string needs:

1 of us to research Int Int, then pass the baton to another who'll change to Cyberethics

Then AMA and Cyberethics get passed to the the team that will research Pre Sentient Algorithms, which, when completed, goes to the team that has received the probe fruits of Superconductor, who changes to Fusion Power

Thus in 14 years we are researching 6 techs among 3 factions (and 1 or more of those techs may be extractable from the Uni or PK's through probe action or trade).

With leapfrogging, it is attainable (even without assuming that the Gaian Union and Data Angels are able to maintain a faster research rate than the Spartan Federation)

How about it?

Lieutenant-Colonel Googlie

[Maniac]

Seeing the Gaian hostile attitude towards us, I expect they'll refuse the Maniac Manifesto. Perhaps we could use this to picture the Gaians as the bad guys to the Angels and weaken their bond, and propose some 2-way leapfrogging between us.

Something like this perhaps in the Angel embassy?

"Unfortunately the hostile Gaians have refused our Maniac Manifesto. It appears they do not want the Angels and Spartans to thrive and prosper.
This is no reason to cease all cooperation between us two though. We can still achieve much together, with or without the Gaians. So we were wondering, are you interested in some 2-way leapfrogging to the advantage of us both, and let the Gaians regret thier belligerence?"

[Googlie]

I like that

Maybe get a discussion on whether we have the tech they are currently researching, that might let them change to Doc Loyalty (and emphasize to them that our interest isn't in strengthening ourselves so much as denying the CN to Yang - we see ourselves as being "the Army of the Democracies" or something like that (yeah, right )

Time is of the essence, though, as no doubt the Gaians will be sending Soc Psych to them next turn, and it'd be neat to pre-empt that

[Kassiopeia]

Googlie, you have my consent for any deal you'll want to try out with the Angels.

[Maniac]

Originally posted by Googlie
Time is of the essence, though, as no doubt the Gaians will be sending Soc Psych to them next turn, and it'd be neat to pre-empt that

Reminds me. Shall we also offer the Angels to sell DocMob? And let them suggest the price?

[Googlie]

I've sent this to GeoModder:

Sent by PM, email and posted in the Embassy

Geomodder:

I'm sending this 3 ways - here, by 'Poly PM and via the Embassy, as we have just under 12 hours left with the turn.

The Maniac Manifesto is dead, killed by the Gaians

(Can you believe that they, getting Soc Psych next year, balked at getting Soc Psych from us and changing imemdiately so that they'd get Doc Mobility next year? They wanted, in addition, either Secrets, or Ethical Calculus, or 200 ec's, etc. Why couldn't they see that it was a great deal for both of us - and prolly you as well since it would have kick-started the Maniac plan)

In any event, it's dead.

But that needn't prohibit the Angels and the Spartans engaing in some leapfrogging.

Through judicious trading, stealing and self-researching, we have a slew of techs that the Angels lack (and you prolly have some that we lack as well)

Crucial to us is Doctrine Loyalty, as in our opinion Buster has made the Hive so strong that if they get the Command Nexus it's prolly game over for a couple of the factions (we believe that we and Morgan will survive - but, for instance, Yang is currently building no fewer than 16 impact-weaponed units - if he gets the CN (he completes in 9 years), then these will have a +2 morale and be almost undefeatable) And while it would be OK for either you or the Gaians to build the CN, we believe our role in this game is to use our superior might to neutralize - and take out - the Hive at some point. Rather we had Commando units against his Disciplined than our Hardened against his Elites.

We don't know what you are curremntly researching, but if we were to pass to you Social Psych and Doctrine Mobility, would you be able to chabnge (soon) to Doc Loyalty and pass that to us?

Beyond that, we could foresee a fruitfal leapfrogging effort that would see us jointly getting to SFF and Air Power, Env Econ and PSA (for your free Covert Ops Centers)

Your thoughts and those of your colleagues?

Googlie

[Googlie]

Got this reply by PM from GM:

PM from GeoModder to Googlie

Lt.-Colonel Googlie,

The message is received and forwarded to the other Data Angels.

We saw great benefits in the 'Maniac plan', but it's too soon to tell if we want to commit ourselves or not. Discussion is far from over at this moment, for this would mean quite a change in our own research plans.

So far so good

[Kassiopeia]

Yep, sounds good to me as well... let's hope they can cut the cord and tear themselves away from the Gaians.

[Googlie]

By a process of elimination (and astute deduction), The Angels are currently researching Doc Flex.

Consider:

Earlier, the Gaians said they could deliver Doc Flex and Social Psych to us by the end of the decade

Curremtly, the Gaians are 1 turn away from Social Psych

Currently, giving them Flex - with no restrictions on further trading is one of their requested sweeteners for going the Doc Loyalty route

Only they and the Angels lack Doc Flex.

Ergo, they are in a leapfrog situation with the Angels.

So .......................................

How badly do we want Doc Loyalty?

Bad enough to give the Angels Social Psych, Doc Mobility and Doc Flex so that thjey can change to Doc Loyalty and give it to us in 2149?

I say yes - provided they don't trade Flex or Loyalty until we've completed the Command Nexus, and agree themselves not to build it

(We're in exactly the same boat as if we give the Gaians Social Psych and a free Doc Flex - they and the Angels would have all 3. This way we can get our cake and eat it too (punishing the Gaians for their rigidity)

Plus, it paves the way for a better deal with Morgan

I'll float it to the Angels in the Embassy

G.

[Googlie]

hmm - Argenine points out a flaw in my reasoning - the Angels don't yet have Doc Mobility, so can't be researching Doc Flex

So no reason to hold up the turn any longer

[Googlie]

Notwithstanding: GeoModder has replied:

email to Googlie from GeoModder

I take a liberty here, but on my behalf I ask to request a 24 hour delay in the Spartans forwarding the turn. I cannot promise anything atm tho, but it is a very generous proposal.

Geo

to which I have replied:

e-mail reply from Googlie to GeoModder
Well, a colleague pointed out a fatal flaw in my proposal - The Data Angels do not yet possess Doc Mobility, so you cannot be researching Doc Flex (so there would be no reason to send Doc Flex in the package. Or if we do, as a gesture of friendship, we would want a longer embargo period before it found its way to the Gaian Union. It would gall us exceedingly were the net result of their intransigence be that they just had to wait a couple of years for the deal that they refused us)

(It would be helpful if other leaders were as open as we are about what we are researching - deals could be put together without all the guessing that goes on - either that or we need to get our probe foils into the right oceans and forget about the AI for a decade or so)

Accordingly, I have requested of Drogue a 24 hour extension to our 2146 turn (by PM as well as in the turn reporting thread)

[Googlie]

Posted by GeoModder in the Embassy

Message received, mailed back with the request to ask the mods to allow a 24 hour delay in, forwarding the turn. The options we have are quite clearly outlined, so this time frame should be sufficient to reach a decision.

IT GeoModder

To which I have replied:

Posted by Googlie in the Embassy
Well, it's been pointed out by one of my Covert Operations Agents that as the Data Angels do not yet possess Doctrine: Mobility, you cannot be currently researching Doctrine: Flexibility.

If the early delivery of Doctrine: Loyalty by the Data Angels to the Spartan Federation is still possible, then the deal can stand, with two changes to the terms (one fairly minor - yet crucial, and the other a term change to the third party trade embargo)

• to change their research to Doctrine:Loyalty, and send it to us the year they research it (only if this is before 2150)
• not to trade Doc: Loyalty or Doc: Flexibility to third parties until the later of five years following the date of such transfer of Doctrine: Loyalty from the Data Angels to the Spartan Federation, or the Spartan Federation completing the Command Nexus

If these are do-able, then a deal is certainly possible

To explain the changes

- the Hive is currently 9 years from completing the Command Nexus, but is building a crawler, and the AI does use crawlers to hurry SP's, hence the 2150 date. The deal is obviously worthless to Sparta if we can't beat the Hive to the Command Nexus

- we know that the Gaian Union and the Data Angels have been co-ordianting their joint research. Thus we expect that these techs will eventually find their way into Gaian hands. But having seen how intransigent the Gaians can be, we would be extremely annoyed if the only penalty to them for what we perceive to be their unreasonableness were to be a delay of just a year or so in aquiring the techs they tried to extort from us. Hence our desire that Sparta and the data Angels should enjoy the fruits of those technologies for a short while before the Gaians receive them

(You may not know, but earlier today we recalled our Ambassador to the Gaian Union and expelled theirs from the Federation. We have closed off and sealed the Embassy under armed guard for the time being. Whether we remain Treatied with the Gaian Union is for time to decide..)

Lieutenant-Colonel Googlie

[Maniac]

Would be a great deal if it worked. Personally I'd like to have kept DocFlex longer out of Gaian hands, but that's a minor issue I guess.

Btw, does the Angels being able to agree to such a leapfrog mean they're currently researching SocPsych or DocMob? Perhaps we should ask to be sure?
Also we'd better check out with MM's tech choice simulator if the Angels will be really able to select DocLoy next. I'll check it out on my laptop and report the results later today or tomorrow.

[Googlie]

This received by e-mail from GM:

e-mail from GeoModder to Googlie
Whatever deal we would have agreed upon, the mbargo wishes of the Junta would have been respected to the letter, if not to the spirit. It is simply too easy finding out which faction has ones own techs, so there is no way cheating on it.

Does this means that the Spartan proposal is off the table completely? Whether or not with help of the Spartans, the Data Angels WILL acquire all the mentioned technologies in the near future. It is simply a matter of trading with the right partner. This can be either the Spartans or the Gaians, or both.

In case the Junta still wishes to acquire Doc:Loy on a more 'conventional' way, it seems we are the only faction who is able to help you out then.

Regarding being open about research. The Junta has mentioned some technologies it possesses, certainly not all of them. However it has never mentioned (as far as I recall) which technology it was researching. We feel
that the Angels have been open and willing enough to accommodate Spartan research plans on two occasions now, despite hasty proposals and appearant quick redrawals of those proposals for some reason or the other. It looks more like the Data Angels are considered a sort of last ditch attempt to achieve the Junta's means when negotiations with the High Council fail.

Regards,
IT GeoModder

I have replied somewhat long-windedly (too long for this reply post - LOL) in a very conciliatory vein, but I did send a short bersion by e-mail:

e-mail freply from Googlie to GeoModder
Dear IT GeoModder

I responded (somewhat long windedly) in our Embassy

It's not that we see the Data Angels as a "haven of last resort" - more that we made prior contact with the Gaians, and as Maniac and I developed the "Manifesto" the immediate trade would have been a Gaia-Sparta trade

Then we - erroneously - deduced that the Angels were researching Doc: Flex, and slapped our heads and said "Now why didn't we explore this?" (and the short answer is that there currently are Morgan supporters within the Junta, and Gaian supporters, but our contact with the Data Angels is so recent that there hasn't yet developed an "Angels' wing" within the Junta)

We do have a number of technologies that will probably be of interest to the Data Angels - depending on where your priorities lie, I'm sure that we can engage in some further trading to our factions' mutual benefit

Lt-Col Googlie

G.

[Maniac]

If I got their techs right, the Angels should be able to switch to Doctrine Loyalty. If they'd have one more we don't know about, they wouldn't be able to select it though.