Sparta-Angels relations

[Maniac]

Never mind.

[Kassiopeia]

What did I do wrong this time?

[Googlie]

I see that they will trade Ind Econ for Doc Flex, but want a 3 year embargo (just in time to pass it on to the Gaians, who'll research it themselves "just before the decade is out" (their own words)

So compromise at 6 years? (ie, 2150 if traded in 2144)

But I wouodn't budge on the fifteen for Ethcalc, just in case only they are interested in it

G

[Kassiopeia]

3+15 is 18. Halve that, and you get nine years worth of embargo. That is a compromise. Six would be caving in.

[Maniac]

Originally posted by Kassiopeia
What did I do wrong this time?

Nothing. My post originally contained a comment on Geo's proposal to lower the no-trade term to three years, which I didn't like. Personally I think we're giving away our technological advantage too easily (certainly now it appears the Gaians and Angels would rather trade among themselves than with us, meaning giving them techs cheaply is not in our advantage and won't improve relations - it simply strengthens our future enemies). However Googlie thinks the opposite as he wants the other factions to have more fun if I understand correctly. That's why I've deleted my message, as I think I'll try to keep out of foreign affairs to not have to disagree with Googlie and reduce his enjoyment of the ACDG, and focus more on the Spartan domestic economy (that's what I told myself I'd do at the start of the ACDG anyway). Economy is what I'm best at anyway. Also I'm not so good at diplomatic negotiations, and always seem to have the most isolationist thoughts and propose the most expensive trades, so my foreign affairs opinion isn't representative for the overall Spartan opinion anyway.

[Kassiopeia]

I still want to make a case for the tech trades we've been proposing as of late, since I don't think anything should be approved without critical consideration.

Regarding Ethical Calculus. It will allow the others to run Democracy, which admittedly is going to be a boon to others. However, if the trade happens, our terms mean that we'll have a stronger stranglehold on Citizen's Defence Force. All three human factions might end up not building it because we've asked them to based on this trade.

Then there is the matter of not hoarding techs. While we must keep an advantage, if the advantage is too strong early on we'll end up gangra... err, the others will gang up on us. This must be avoided at all costs.

Hoarding will also get very, very, difficult when the elections happen, as the other factions will have a chance to do leapfrogging and ask each other for the best offers. We have a monopoly now and should cash in on it to the best of our abilities, and use this money to build up our military-industrial complex.

Selling Doc:Flex won't be a concern when we have Doc:Init since we can churn out superior, faster ships. In turn we'll get low tier techs so that our probe loot will be richer and some more cash.

I hope you won't ignore foreign affairs completely, as it's imperative that we had the "builders" take part so that we do trades that benefit the faction as a whole in terms of progress and infrastructure.

[Googlie]

Maniac, No - you still have to give input.

And I think we keep ecol Eng for as long as possible (recognizing that Gene Splicing is the key to that, we can expect the Gaians to change to that if we give/trade them Doc Flex

But I like this thought we're developing re Morgan (Maniac ousting me from a leading position in the Junta, relations suddenly going a bit frostier with them, etc

(In fact, next week I'll be doing the trek from Vancouver to Palm Springs, so will be out of commission around the time the turn needs to be played. Maybe Maniac can play the 2144 turn, and that'll reinforce the impression that indeed I've been demoted)

I guess from our perspective, which faction would we be least threatened by (and that'd be the one to cultivate with some embargoed techs - maybe the Angels? - and it would make Maniac's chats with GeoModder less strained)

[Maniac]

Originally posted by Kassiopeia
I still want to make a case for the tech trades we've been proposing as of late, since I don't think anything should be approved without critical consideration.

I agree with the current by us proposed Ethcalc & IndEcon trades. I just hope we won't compromise too much to please the Gaians & Angels, as they seem to have a strong cooperation and thus at the moment conflict seems inevitable whatever we do.

Originally posted by Googlie
And I think we keep ecol Eng for as long as possible (recognizing that Gene Splicing is the key to that, we can expect the Gaians to change to that if we give/trade them Doc Flex

If we'd want to prevent them getting EcoEng too soon, we could always tell them we only want to trade DocFlex if they then next switch to a research project of our choice. HEC comes to mind for example.

Problem is of course the Gaians can soon trade gene splicing to the Angels, so it's possible the Angels will research EcoEng soon anyway.

(In fact, next week I'll be doing the trek from Vancouver to Palm Springs, so will be out of commission around the time the turn needs to be played. Maybe Maniac can play the 2144 turn, and that'll reinforce the impression that indeed I've been demoted)

That would only be possible if the turn arrives in the weekend though.

Btw, does moving to Palm Springs means you'll be online less? IIRC you were then active less last year among other reasons because you had a less comfortable PC environment.

[Googlie]

Originally posted by Maniac
Btw, does moving to Palm Springs means you'll be online less? IIRC you were then active less last year among other reasons because you had a less comfortable PC environment.

Naw - I finally got that one sorted out. I'm renting the same condo, and in the summer the landlord (lives in Boston) e-mailed me to ask what it needed, so I said "A computer hutch and a big leather swivel reclining chair."

He's been there these first 2 weeks of October, and has e-mailed me to say they are now in place in the second bedroom.

So it won't be an issue this winter.

G.

[Googlie]

Originally posted by Maniac
If we'd want to prevent them getting EcoEng too soon, we could always tell them we only want to trade DocFlex if they then next switch to a research project of our choice. HEC comes to mind for example.

That's brilliant!!.. They are 5 turns - or maybe fewer - away from Flex, so tell them we'll trade them Flex only if they change to HEC and pass it to us when researched (level 2 for level 2, makes sense)

And if they stall, telling us that we could get it in 9 years or seomething like that, it'll reinforce my belief that the Angels are researching it right now (having gotten Applied physics 2 years ago) and that the Gaians are going to then change to something else (like Ethcalc) and get HEC from the Angels for onward transmission to us

Problem is of course the Gaians can soon trade gene splicing to the Angels, so it's possible the Angels will research EcoEng soon anyway.

Well, see my thoughts above. I figure it's still 15 - 20 turns away for the Angels and the Gaians, and longer for Morgan if we hold our resolve.

We gotta gang form those boreholes!! (maybe even taking the 2 formers NW and NE of OA off their roadbuilding on those rocky tiles and getting them to a good borehole site - down by GH?)

[Kassiopeia]

I proposed Maniac's idea (DocFlex for any tech we want) to the Gaians in the embassy. I like it.

[KrysiasKrusader]

Don't cave in to the Angels reduction to 3 years.

Edit: 4 is not a compromise either.

[Googlie]

Kassi has already suggested 9 years (the mean of our 15 and their 3)

I'd settle for anything after 2150 (by then the Gaians will have discovered Flex on their own, so the embargo will mean nothing after that)

[Maniac]

Originally posted by Googlie
Kassi has already suggested 9 years (the mean of our 15 and their 3)

I'd settle for anything after 2150 (by then the Gaians will have discovered Flex on their own, so the embargo will mean nothing after that)

The Gaians could of course always temporarily slow down their research so they could trade with the Angels after all after 2150. That's why I like the 9 years: it gives us a safety margin.

Edit:
Oh yeah, IIRC Googlie suggested somewhere to reduce the no-trade term for DocFlex, but not for EthCalc. That's why I've posted the following in the Angel embassy supposedly as a question to Kassiopeia:

Was this embargo reduction for both trade proposals, or only for the DocFlex<->IndEcon trade?

This gives us the ability to still decide if the embargo reduction is for one or both deals.

[Googlie]

I threw this into the mix just for the heck of it:

Posted by Googlie in the Embassy
Reply to : GeoModder

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However, the embargo timeframe, while understandable, is too long for making common sense. It is effectively embargoing to exchange with any other party that way while there is still a chance it is a usefull trading technology.
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I do not normally butt in on diplomatic exchanges (but heck, I've already been discplined once by the Junta - what else can they do - make me Staff Sergeant?)

Doctrine Flexibility is currently the intellectual property of the Spartan Federation (as is Industrial Economics that of the Data Angels)

Why would we even countenance our allowing you to trade our intellectual property to any third party?

Captain Googlie

(Maybe they'll be quick to accept that 9 year term!!