Sparta-Angels relations

[Googlie]

Encouraging response from the Angels:

Posted by Mart in the Embassy

Thank you for your message, I have posted this offer for the discussion in our Data Angels forum. Although I cannot decide alone in this matters, this agreement appear to me very beneficial

[Googlie]

We have a Deal !!

This, in the Embassy:

Posted in the Embassy by IT Mart

To Spartan Federation,

We have discussed your proposal and also contacted the Gaian Union regarding required from them declarations. Gaians agreed for not building Citizen's Defence Force SP. Having their declaration we can continue then with the trade according to your offer. Also we have not traded Social Psych with Gaians, so as you proposed we would need to receive this technology from you. Summarizing all details:

1. Data Angels and Gaians agree for not undertaking building the Citizen's Defence Force SP.
2. Spartans agree for not undertaking building the Ascetic Virtues SP.
3. Spartan Federation transfers Ethical Calculus and Social Psych to Data Angels at the closest turn.
4. Ethical Calculus will not be charged with embargo regarding its transfer to Gaian Union.
5. Data Angels switch their research effort to Intellectual Integrity and as soon as it is completed transfer it to Spartan Federation.

Some final comments, as you predicted the research costs among factions after our recent trading quite significantly increased. For this reason we hope to receive the Ethical Calculus as soon as possible, as it is required for us to raise our research output.

As we saw, Morganities were able to research a new technology within 6 years, from 2145, when they obtained Progenitor Psych to 2151, when they got Adaptive Economics, according to our analysis. Morganic research output must be tremendous compared to ours then.

IT Mart

Yeah!!

To which I replied:

Posted by Googlie in the Embassy

To: IT Mart

The Junta is pleased that this deal is going forward.

The technologies of Social Psych and Ethical Calculus will be in the diplo pouch this turn on a pre-accepted basis, and we look forward to receiving Intellectual Integrity in due course.

Your comments re: Morgan's tech rate are apt. We ourselves, currently with the tech lead, have a cost of just under 800 lab points per turn, while Morgan lies at just over 400. Even running at 40:20:40 they still produce more than 80 per turn!! (mind you, we have almost 25 technologies now discovered - or acquired - compared to their 14, so the comparison isn't exactly apples and oranges - they are choosing to research internally while we prefer to trade or purloin our techs!!)

Lt.-Col. Googlie

(we actually have 22 ................ that's almost 25, isn't it?)

[Snoddasmannen]

Good trade
Mind you, who do we hold responsible if the Gaians actually do build the CDF now? It would have been nice to receive some official word from them as well.

And good job with the exaggeration You didn't overdo it so that they wouldn't believe us, but it's still a show of strength needed to continue our bullying.

[Modo44]

Re: We have a Deal !!

Good to hear the deal is there.

Originally posted by Googlie
(we actually have 22 ................ that's almost 25, isn't it?)

Good. Keep them wondering what that might be. I'm sure they'll be counting, and trying to figure us out.

[Maniac]

Hey ho, I hadn't expected us to accept the deal without further questions.

I mean, while I of course like the deal , who knows they'll only research that tech in twenty years. Should we not ask when they expect to finish their research, and ask them boost their research as much as possible, by putting it on 60% (or higher, if running Democracy allows them that)?

[Modo44]

I think it's obvious, that they are supposed to fulfill their part of the deal ASAP. If the don't, we can bully them then, no?

[Maniac]

Originally posted by Modo44
I think it's obvious, that they are supposed to fulfill their part of the deal ASAP.

Not really. Technically they can give us the tech in a 100 years. In a highly competitive game like the ACDG I guess it's better to close all loopholes.

If the don't, we can bully them then, no?

Unfortunately we don't have any ships present near Angel territory.

[Modo44]

See, I told you my ships need guns.

But seriously, if you read carefully what they write, they have agreed to switch research to IntInt ASAP, and they said they want it to be fast. If they don't, I'm sure we'll know, right? It's not like there's only two of us, so making themselves untrustworthy wouldn't be so clever, IMO.

Besides, we'd probably have to pay the Morgans even more, and they already fear us enough, to certainly try and stall the research...

[Googlie]

Actually, we soon will have a ship in their waters.

We're backtracking the Invincible (down south by Gaian lands) to pop that pod, then we're sending her round the southern coast of LaLaland where it'll sail up the channel between Lal and the Angels - and as we have the PK maps naturally we'll hug the Angels coastline and map that as we go - so I'm sure we'll drop anchor in a bay or 2 by their bases

[Maniac]

Re: We have a Deal !!

Originally posted by Googlie
(we actually have 22 ................ that's almost 25, isn't it?)

Originally posted by Modo44
Good. Keep them wondering what that might be. I'm sure they'll be counting, and trying to figure us out.

I added "Commander of the Spartan Air Force" to my signature. Should keep them wondering if they notice it.
And I'm not even lying!

Originally posted by Modo44
But seriously, if you read carefully what they write, they have agreed to switch research to IntInt ASAP, and they said they want it to be fast. If they don't, I'm sure we'll know, right? It's not like there's only two of us, so making themselves untrustworthy wouldn't be so clever, IMO.

Yeah, I'm most likely being a bit too careful having last ACDG's PEACE in mind.

Originally posted by Googlie
Actually, we soon will have a ship in their waters.

[Maniac]

I might have some bad news regarding the IntInt trade.

I checked whether the Angels would be able to select Intellectual Integrity as their next tech choice, and if I got their technology level right, they won't.



Sorry I didn't check this earlier. As the Angels took a long time to respond, I assumed it wasn't urgent and that they would try to barter and renegotiate the deal a bit before it became final.

Hmm, I reread the last few posts and I noticed I was the one who suggested they needed a second tech to make this deal work - link. Perhaps I was thinking they were researching SocPsych?

So I have no idea how the Angels will switch to Intellectual Integrity. We'd need to know what technology they are researching and possibly give them that.

Perhaps we could send a reply to them like this?

"On receiving your latest message, our social analysts have reviewed the possibility of this deal and it seems we made a mistake. If we have estimated your number of technologies correct, you will be unable to choose IntInt as your next research project (due to the mod3 rule). Can you confirm this?

If so, a possible solution might be to give you Ethical Calculus alone this turn. Then you could switch to IntInt, and after you switched to IntInt we could provide you Social Psych. In this scenario you would have to switch out your current research project though, and lose half of your currently accumulated labs.

Another scenario could be we giving you whatever technology you are researching now (for a compensation) so you don't lose labs.

Or perhaps you already had another scenario planned with the Gaians - that's of course also possible.

In any case we hope to find a solution soon. Is it mandatory we provide you our technologies now already, or do we have some breathing room to figure things out should we not find a solution within our time limit?

By the way, may I ask for an estimation as to when you could research Intellectual Integrity, after being provided Ethical Calculus and I assume boosting your research expenditure?"

[Modo44]

If they agreed to go for it, I assume they have the required prequisites, or will have soon. Whether by trade with others, or by own research by the Angels - what do we care? We paid, we await technology in return, and soon.

Or else... Mind you, they don't know how far we are from invading them. We just started to kick Zak around, so who knows what else we can do, and where the rest of our forces is... Or do the Angels know any facts?

[Googlie]

Maniac:

Just to clarify,

1) - If the Angels are currently researching Ethical Calculus, and we send it to them (just that for now) will they then be able to change to Int Int? (and then we could send Soc Psych next turn, as that was part of the agreed deal)

2) - If they are currently researching Social Psych and we send them that plus Ethical Calculus, they will not see Int Int as a tech choice unless we send them a 3rd tech (such as SotHB?)

3) - If they are currently researching Social Psych, and they change to EthCalc and we then send them that, will Int Int appear as a choice for them? (and almost certainly they'd want compensation in cash otr tech for the lost lab points over and above getting Soc Psych the next turn from us

If all the above are true, then I'd favour # 2 - give them another tech, as we certainly can't afford the ec's equivalent of 2 or 3 lost research years.

I'd assume that they'd balk at a lenghty embaro on onward trading of that 3rd tech, so Secrets is, IMO, the one we least care about going to the Gaians.

[Maniac]

If we're right that the Angels have 14 techs right now, then yes your two first points are correct. I'm not sure I understand what you mean with the third point. If you want to know whether the Angels could select EthCalc after being given SocPsych, then the answer is 'no'.

as we certainly can't afford the ec's equivalent of 2 or 3 lost research years.

I think we can make a decent case that we shouldn't be held responsible for any labs lost due to them having to switch research.

After all, it should be their responsibility to check whether IntInt would appear as a research choice for them, not ours. (Probably they didn't check this - AFAIK few people use Minute Mirage's tech choice simulator.) They should bear the consequences if they make deals without knowing whether they can fulfill them.

Also in point IT Mart says:
"5. Data Angels switch their research effort to Intellectual Integrity and as soon as it is completed transfer it to Spartan Federation. "
So who knows they were already planning to switch research, thinking that acquiring EthCalc is worth more than saving half their acculumated labs (which shouldn't yet be much).

[Googlie]

It prolly makes more sense for you to handle the mechanics of this one then, as you're on top of the subject matter, if you don't mind entering into techtrade negotiations midway

That way if they are unclear about how the mod 3 spreadsheet works you could walk them thru it - it'd be useless my trying (although I must play with it to see what's what)