Sparta-Angels relations

[Googlie]

Originally posted by Maniac
I like the message. Perhaps we could make us look even weaker by eg mentioning the cost of the PTS Raid (some 160 minerals, 300 credits plus lost commerce income to us and Zakharov), saying how we fear the approaching air wars with Morgan due to their larger economy, and mention that their economy is already bigger again than before the PTS raid - imagine how strong they would be if they still had had the PTS!

Here it is polished, expanded and a little friendlier:

*************************************************

Dear ...........

We thank you for your message in our Embassy, and gratefully acknowledge your stance of Neutrality in our conflict with Morgan (more on this later)

In answer to your first question, yes, we are in a position to instabuild the CDF in 2164

Secondly, we are interested in further technology trading, perhaps assisting the Angels in acquiring Planetary Economics (and your building the Ascetic Virtues Project,which you will recall, we undertook not to build.)

We, for our part, wouild like to acquire Fusion Power, and MMI, and build the Cyborg Factory. That would essentially complete the military phase of our development for some tens of years. After that, we would plan to focus more on infrastructure, as we would by then see ourselves able to defend ourselves against the Hive - and perhaps take the offensive at some point against Yang

Now a word about our conflict with the Corporation:

The intent of our elimination of the Planetary Transit System was twofold:

• a somewhat heavy handed response to their effrontery in mind contolling away our foil, the Hunter, (and while negotiating its possible return to us, hiding it in fungus just 2 tiles outside our main naval base, no doubt to surprise and destroy any transports or probe foils that exited that base)
• an attempt to "level the playing field" somewhat.

Prior to us removing the PTS, Morgan was becoming the dominant faction on Planet, by far. We saw them engaged in an exponential population boom, using the Kody doctrine used so successfully in ACDG history (building nothing but colony pods in size 3 bases that themselves became size 3 bases, thus dramatically growing).

Their mineral output in the year before we launched the raid (ie, ignoring the solar flare year) was 119 and their enrgy credit "production" was 94, contributing to lab points of 110

And the raid was not without cost to us, taken on behalf of all Chiron. Unfortunately they saw our transport with its invasion fleet where it was hiding in the fungus and were able to ring the shores with units to prevent easy landing of our forces. As a result, we spent 300 precious credits upgrading Impact Rovers to Amphibious Gatling Rovers - and lost 4 of them as well as the transport they sailed in (rather than let them fall into Morgan hands through mind control techniques) That represented a loss of 160 minerals' worth of investment for us.

In addition, our foregone commerce income, due to sanctions, amounts to almost 300 in total over the ten years (assuming that Zak's modest 7 or 8 per turn indirectly funnels to us)

But having achieved that limited objective, we then held out the olive branch of peace, as in the meantime Yang had declared Vendetta against us and we were reluctant to fight on two fronts.

They have ignored our offers, so in the interim we have engaged in some light "pinprick" skirmishing - shelling of forests and mine on their northern shore, to remind them that we are a military faction.

But we note that now, in 2162, Morgan has rebounded from their loss, and now their mineral output is 112 and their enrgy credit "production" is 191 (after getting Environmental Economics, and benefitting from +1 INDUSTRY), contributing to lab points of 61 (they have had to drastically increase Psyxh allocations to deal with resulting drone problems after the loss of the PTS). But at least they are now forced to grow conventially, as we all are, although they have been successful in rapidly closing the technology lead we had by their aggressively probing Yang and purchasing technologies from Lal and Zak

But we cannot hide that we are suffering an economic penalty due to sanctions. Also, Morgan has reneged on around 150 ec's owing us in payment for prior technology sales.

But early after we met them, we borrowed heavily from Yang and Lal (and we see that you, too, have gone that route - at least with Lal - very shrewd!!), and after defeating the University in battle, we have extorted a small amount of credits from Zak - but he, too is relatively poor, and we would like to see his infrastructure built up and his faction expand - hence our offer to you of his commlink.

But we have been fortunate in having a largish navy, and have been able to rein in and open some Unity pods that have released energy credits to us. But we are looking forward to the end of the ten year sanction period, when our - and our Treaty and Pactmates - can resume profitable commerce trading.

So while we wage a containment war against Yang, and show some "tough love" to Morgan, we would indeed welcome closer trade relations with the Angels. At this point we still see Morgan as the greatest threat to stability on Chiron, followed closely by the Hive - although the Gaian Union seems to have successfully contained their southern route at the chokepoint between their territories.

With Morgan's still growing Industrial and Economic strength, we fear being dragged into an air war against them - any advantage we currently might have there will be short lived - so we are looking towards the future and our own internal population and infrastructure growth. Stronger ties with the Data Angels forms an integral part of that strategy

As an aside, we note that Morgan has naval vessels in the ocean between your continent and that of the Peacekeepers. We have a cruiser task force in the vicinity, so do not be alarmed if you see it heading up your western coastline - we are just going to protect our investment in the University and Peacekeeper factions

Sincerely,

Named Spartan Officer

[Maniac]

Stats for Morgan 2159 were:
minerals: 119 (of which 31 were used for support, but if want to picture Morgan as powerful let's temporarily forget about that )
credits: 94
labs: 110

I didn't use 2160 data because those are distorted by the solar flares.

Our commerce income in 2159, according to the F8 screen, was 24. If you add Zak to that (whose energy & labs indirectly end up with us), you could say we had 30 commerce income. Of course a significant part of that was lost due to inefficiency, but once again, if we want to say how terribly we're suffering from sanctions, let's temporarily forget about this.

If you add the minerals used for support to the 2162 Morganic data you get +33:

minerals: 112 (with +1 SE Industry)
credits: 191 (with +1 SE Industry - meaning hurrying production is less expensive)
labs: 61


For the record, we're using 23 minerals for support, making our total mineral production 160. A good thing we have 2 free support slots per base, or we'd have to pay much more support costs.

[Googlie]

My above post edited to reflect Manaic's data

I have posted this in the Embassy, while the turn is in the Angels' hands

[Kassiopeia]

Good I have my much-feared matriculation examinations next week and the week after that, so I may not be able to take part as much as I'd like.

[Googlie]

This, from the Angels, in reply:

Posted by GeoModder in the Embassy

Dear Col. Googlie,

Your message is well received, and will naturally take a while to process through for the content is rather large.

You seem well-informed about the Morgan energy income and production output. How high do you estimate the chance that they have access about the same kind of information about your own faction?

Regarding your flotilla nearby our coast. May we ask the content of it, and in case a transport is included, it's cargo?

It sounds a bit strange that this cruiser force sails south instead of hunting down the ships of the Corporation you mentioned. Is your navy that overstretched compared to theirs?

Regards,

IT GeoModder

[Maniac]

Posted by GeoModder in the Embassy
It sounds a bit strange that this cruiser force sails south instead of hunting down the ships of the Corporation you mentioned. Is your navy that overstretched compared to theirs?

How did they interpret this? We're sailing north exactly to hunt down those Corporate ships. And why would our navy be overstretched because of this?

[Snoddasmannen]

It would be polite of them to answer some of our questions before we answer a second salvo of theirs, we should point this out.

Our reply was very informative btw, though probably not truthful enough to be of any real harm to us, so good job

[sentry33]

How did they interpret this? We're sailing north exactly to hunt down those Corporate ships. And why would our navy be overstretched because of this?

I think that they are trying to assess our intentions, position and the force nearby their coast.

If our navy is overstretched - it probably means separated, perhaps vulnerable to mind control and other attacks.. and covering large part of planet.

If not, it implies that there might be quite large force near their coast, and in the least - that avoiding tactic is much more succesful against our fleet than the military exchange.

Finally if they have means to confirm the data they got from us - it will help them assess our sincerety and motives toward them at this moment.

They are trying to extract as much data from us as they can.. perhaps for purpose of trading it to others (hence why neutral stance - to talk with everyone), or just as an attempt to balance the play field and make wars more bloody, in consequence - putting them in better position.

[Modo44]

We can tell them there are Morgan probes we have not found yet. They are somewhere in the oceans, and could be targetting anyone. Of course we can divert small naval task forces () to go looking in various places.

As to the contents of any trannies, they are confidential, of course. No need telling them we are popping pods. They can guess that without help anyway.

[Googlie]

Again, maybe to the pont of naivete, I'd be (reasonably) forthright. Something such as:

We have these data as, early on, we infiltrated Morgan. We do not believe that we, in turn, have been infiltrated by the Corporation.

Morgan has just 1 combat naval vessel, 1 transport loaded with probe teams and 2 probe foils We think we have accounted for all but 1 of these.

We have 3 combat task forces comprising at least a couple of vessels each (to avoid mind control of a single ship) and are assembling a fourth. W have an integrated Transport Command with a handful of assorted craft but which, unfortunately, lost its flagship, the SNC Mercury, in that PTS raid

Two of our task forces are engaged, respectively, with the Morgan front (the forest/mine shelling we alluded to) and the Hive front (Yang is about to roll out a missile foil - we are poised to intercept that)

A third is the one we mentioned to you - a vessel is - as you will see - currently repairing and refitting in a Peacekeeper base (UN Great Refuge), and will be joined by a cruiser, which will then round the Cape of Sol to join the Disco Volante, the flagship of our Navy seals, which has been mapping the southern oceans. This Elite armored probe cruiser, with its 9 movement points, is the vessel we will rush to try and intercept the Morgan probe teams offshore the Peacekeepers eastern coast. It poses no threat to the Angels or to the Gaians, as we were using its high speed and manoeverability for mapping purposes. While it may keep to the ocean in its rush north, it may end a turn adjacent to your coast, which is why we thought it prudent to reassure you as to ite peaceful intentions, lest you felt that a probe attempt was imminent.

We trust that this answers your questions about our naval strength, and our intentions while in your hemisphere

Do we lose anything by divulging this kind of information (misinformation?) If they have infiltrated us (I doubt it) then they will know, and their questions are just a test of our honesty. If they haven't, then we are revealing nothing really that they don't know or can infer - they can see the Invincible in Great Refuge; we have already told them we are shelling Morgan forests, they know the Hive is about to launch its Missile Foil in a base adjacent to ours.

The only weakness is that with the above I have overstated our strength, but admitted that we have no combat vessels in their vicinity - but I'd see that as reassuring rather then threatening (and we soon will have anyway, if the SCC Iaca does pop that pod then tagteam with the Invincible and round the PK's southern cape)

[Modo44]

I like your answer. It does not tell the cargo of our trannies, which would be the most difficult info to get.

[Maniac]

Isn't that revealing lots of information? - after all they only asked after the flotilla in our neighbourhood. If we wanted to, we could even keep that info vague by saying "a trance syntharmoured warship, of no less than elite morale!", glossing over the fact it's a probe ship.

Besides, how about like Snoddasmannen suggests, wait until they answer our questions?

[Snoddasmannen]

Well I also think it's a bit too revealing ... In fact, I think even Maniac is giving away too much information by saying it's synth/trance but that's me. We can just say that we have a cruiser force in the area, heading north, but that it poses no threat to the Angels should it be encountered by their navy *stifles laugh*

[sentry33]

great answer

Sometimes its worth to reveal some not important data to gain in trust.

[Snoddasmannen]

I still think we need to post and ask them to answer our questions before we answer theirs. It seems to me like they're dodging us.