Sparta-Angels relations

[Googlie]

Is it worth giving the Angels a sweetener to stop them transmitting Int Int to Morgan before we get it?

I'm thinking maybe another tech - just to make sure we don't get pipped to the post

This would need a delicate diplomatic touch, and would prolly warrant a promotion of our Chief Diplomatic Officer if pulled off (and if we do get that commitment from the Angels, I'd be willing to wait before cashing in that AA)

[Kassiopeia]

Hmmm.

I might engage in some personal talks with mart on the matter... at least at first. Bring it in slowly. Help them understand how we two have only to gain from this deal. Try not to stress our need for it as a defensive measure, stress it as a way to curtail Morgan's power further to keep them from recovering and getting back their place in the sun.

And maybe throw in some details on how our intel says they are stocking up on crawlers, probably cooking up a SP project of their own?

What techs could we offer them right now? It'd be best if we could throw the sweetener at them right in exchange for the 2164 deal of IntInt.

[Maniac]

Originally posted by Kassiopeia
Good news, as far as their stance is concerned - they don't seem to have vendetta in their minds for another three years - so far, so good.

Paranoid rambling:

They already told us a while ag they're gonna get IntInt MY 2164. So why repeat that? Perhaps to give us a false sense of security, while they're cooking up some plan with the Corporation to get the CDF themselves?

Just for the record, a conspiracy theory is always nice.

[Googlie]

Originally posted by Kassiopeia
What techs could we offer them right now?

Here's what we have that they currently lack

(Santiago isn't faring well in cryosleep - seems to be degenrating somewhat, while Roze has undergone the "Michael Jackson" treatment!!

[Maniac]

[Kassiopeia]

Originally posted by Maniac
They already told us a while ag they're gonna get IntInt MY 2164. So why repeat that? Perhaps to give us a false sense of security, while they're cooking up some plan with the Corporation to get the CDF themselves?

Good point - I made the somewhat novice error of trusting what the other party has to say. Of course they wouldn't admit it if they had something in mind. OTOH, they weren't 100% sure on the year they'd have IntInt, so they just confirmed it to us now, perhaps fearing the trade debacle with the Gaians that was caused by lack of similar information would happen all over again.

Wrt. the tech list, what would we be willing to part with (this is hardly a call I can make, IMHO)? The spiffier the better, of course. And what are we giving back to them for IntInt in the first place? EnvEcon?

[Googlie]

Originally posted by Kassiopeia
And what are we giving back to them for IntInt in the first place? EnvEcon?

Didn't we give them the tech(s) a while ago to let them change research to Int Int in the first place (wasn't that the screw up with the tech forecaster that required us to give them the "rogue tech" as well so that Int Int would come up as a choice???

And as regards a gift tech - I'd give them the choice of any one of the 4 level 2 techs that we have that they don't have

[Modo44]

Great, we gave them more than agreed, now we give them some more, and if they are nice, then some more still. What is this, a friggin charity?!

[Snoddasmannen]

Well, I don't know about a sweetener. They're either going to betray us or not (by selling to the Morgans), a single tech probably won't sway them in our favour. Though I agree we should ask them about it.

Do the Morgans really have the capacity to build the CDF in one turn? They will probably spend a bit of resources on paranoia in the near future.

Santiago isn't faring well in cryosleep - seems to be degenrating somewhat

[vishniac]

Originally posted by Modo44
Great, we gave them more than agreed, now we give them some more, and if they are nice, then some more still. What is this, a friggin charity?!

The political rant of the day:
I'm right with Modo on this one! A deal is a deal or it's not! There's no altering the deal, or kneeling before them in hoping they'll fulfill it.
We all know how it turns eventually: it begins with granting this, then that, then that other thing and WOOPS!, we awake one day with Danzig and Poland invaded!

[Zeiter]

I don't know about sweetening the int int deal, but we could trade them HEC separately for a fairly cheap price. Morgan has HEC, and they have contact with the Angels, so I suspect that the Morganites will try to sell HEC to them anyways. So let's beat them to it! I suggest the bargain price of 50 ECs. We want to convince the Data Angels that we can be a fair and helpful trader with them in the future.

[Modo44]

Trading outdated technology sounds good.

About showing our good intentions, I think that has been done already. I mean, we have given the Angels two techs in advance, without taking anything except their word. How much more reliable do we need to look?

[Kassiopeia]

I didn't know about the particularities of this trade or what have we given them already or whatnot - that was why I asked in the first place! I was pretty absent last year when we hammered this deal out (AFAIK). Certainly, if we've provided them the trust of giving techs in advance and are just waiting for them to pay back, surely there's no reason for us to expect anything short of them giving the tech to us as soon as possible. Asking for a short grace period before handing it over to the Morganites would be more than fair. The HEC deal does sound good.

[Maniac]

Originally posted by Googlie
I'd like to reply honestly, along the lines of:

I like the message. Perhaps we could make us look even weaker by eg mentioning the cost of the PTS Raid (some 160 minerals, 300 credits plus lost commerce income to us and Zakharov), saying how we fear the approaching air wars with Morgan due to their larger economy, and mention that their economy is already bigger again than before the PTS raid - imagine how strong they would be if they still had had the PTS!

perhaps assisting the Angels in acquiring Planetary economics and your building the Ascetic Virtues Project (which we undertook not to build, if you remember)

Can't remember exactly, but did we promise this to the Angels as well, or only to the Corporation?

[Googlie]

This, in our Embassy (around the middle of december):

Summarizing all details:

1. Data Angels and Gaians agree for not undertaking building the Citizen's Defence Force SP.
2. Spartans agree for not undertaking building the Ascetic Virtues SP.
3. Spartan Federation transfers Ethical Calculus and Social Psych to Data Angels at the closest turn.
4. Ethical Calculus will not be charged with embargo regarding its transfer to Gaian Union.
5. Data Angels switch their research effort to Intellectual Integrity and as soon as it is completed transfer it to Spartan Federation.