Red Front for ToT

[AGRICOLA]

Thank you for taking the time to post the screenshot without unit flags.

Add my vote to those in favor of unit flags. They definitely are a nice and useful touch.

[Arthedain]

Originally posted by fairline
I guess I could include units files with/without flags as Jimmy suggested.

To be honest, I think that 99% of us wants units with flags, so you don't need to bother.

[Leonidas]

Yes, unit flags are the way to go.

BTW, that unit art is bloody fantastic.

What a difference ToT makes in the colours and units. . .

[jim panse]

@ fairline: You´re welcome

Btw, I suggest you change the green base of the city gfx (if you haven´t done that already ...) as you should fix the location where the civ flag + pole is fixed

[rmsharpe]

jim, I must say, those are beautiful cities!

[Leonidas]

Say, will this redux version be a candidate for the multiple/random scenario files that was used in OMG?

Would certainly add a new twist and keep the player off-balance. . .

[Harry Tuttle]

Fairline, Curt, & everyone, since we have the opportunity to add a few units due to the increased units allowed by ToT what should we add to better depict the struggle on the Red Front?

My suggestion:

Hero units, depicting elite units (Maybe a +1 in attack or something). These units could be specifically geared as being specific troops, under a specific command, that were present in the war at a given time, such as your aforementioned "Guderian's Panzer Gruppe".

Also, maybe there could be troops that were specially trained to fight in specific battles, such as "Stalingrad Defenders" that would pop up when a city is taken, depicting some sort of inhuman struggle by Soviet or German troops to defend a certain city.

[curtsibling]

Sounds good!

There are some weapons like various tanks and arty that could make an appearance!

A few fighter or tank aces too would not go amiss!

[AGRICOLA]

Originally posted by Leonidas
Say, will this redux version be a candidate for the multiple/random scenario files that was used in OMG?

Would certainly add a new twist and keep the player off-balance. . .

I think that your idea has very definite possibilities for making the game more unpredictable. Unfortunately, my only experience with this is in Market Garden where, from what I could see at first glance, the multiple events mainly affect the arrival time and location of Allied reinforcements (my apologies to techumseh as I’m sure that I've missed some of his subtle touches for reinforcing the Germans).

In Red Front, excepting the spawning of Allied assistance units and spawning a limited number of Soviet units, most of the events are aimed at spawning enough German units to maintain the momenum of their attacks or, later in the war, to stiffen their defence.

I think that during summer '41, multiple/random scenario files could be used to switch the focus of the German advance to either Leningrad, Moscow or Rostov and still retain a reasonable similarity to history. If this could be done effectively, it would force players to identify the greatest danger and react appropriately. It also might mean that the Germans actually reach one of their objectives rather than dissipating their efforts.

However, the following summer, when the Germans still maintain the initiative, there would have to be a single-minded focus on Stalingrad and the Caucasus. Multiple/random could be used to set up alternate ways that the Germans force crossings of the Don and attack Stalingrad and the Caucasus. Hopefully, this would to some extent negate any standard defence schemes that players may have developed from previous games.

The summer of '43 and subsequent periods pose a problem in that it is impossible to predict where the Soviet front line will be. Both RF 1.4 and Rf 1.5 assume that the Soviets have followed history and made their major advance in the south despite the large number of German units west and north-west of Rostov. Consequently, the units for Operation Zitadelle are spawned near Kursk. In my games, where the Soviet units were still buttoned up all along the Don, all that the spawned units accomplished was to slightly increase German pressure on the Soviet defences in the Voronezh area.

Instead of spawning in one predetermined location, would it be possible to make the Germans respond to the most dangerous Soviet attack?

I sure wish that there were feedback from players who have completed RF 1.5. It would help a great deal in making sound judgements on the period after the winter of '42-'43.

[N35t0r]

Originally posted by AGRICOLA
Instead of spawning in one predetermined location, would it be possible to make the Germans respond to the most dangerous Soviet attack?

I'm sure it could be possible, to some extent, by heavily using flags. (However, don't take my word for it, as I don't have ToT)

Just imagine everything that could be done with Starcraft-style events...

[Harry Tuttle]

Originally posted by AGRICOLA
Instead of spawning in one predetermined location, would it be possible to make the Germans respond to the most dangerous Soviet attack?

I'm not an expert by any means on ToT mechanics, but if I were to apply MGE ideas to the game:

1) Have multiple event files that would be civswapped in depending on which German held city is taken. If a southern city is taken then "EventsSouth.txt" gets swapped in and German units appear behind the taken city the next turn allowing for a German logistical response to a players advance. Of course, with this German response to your advance, other unit spawn points on other parts of the map would have to be reduced to show an appropriate shift in manpower.

Not only would this idea create a "duel" among battling headquarters to outwit the other, but it would reflect a definite response to a probable Soviet attack which would reflect historic what-ifs.

I think this idea would be one hell of an enhancement for the AI as well as for the game as a whole.

Good going Agricola!

[curtsibling]

Sounds good!

I have been testing my WW2 scenario on ToT - And I can say that version of CIV's enemy AI is evil!

[fairline]

Guys, I don't want to put a dampener on things, and Agricola and Harry's suggestions sound excellent, but what you are talking about here are significant changes to RF. My view is if it ain't broke don't fix it; I would only suggest we implement changes which address potential bugs or gameplay loopholes. Perhaps a few extras can be thrown in to utilise ToT's extra unit slots and masks.

While the multiple events file idea sounds great, don't forget there are already 9 events files for the season/year swaps. If we then have multiple versions of each of those, we're looking at a mammoth task both in terms of implementing them and ensuring Nemo's gameplay balance isn't disturbed. Nemo spent a considerable amount of time ensuring that RF worked, and let's not forget it is still one of the greatest scenarios made. Are we sure we want to 'improve' it to this degree?

[curtsibling]

Fairline is right - We should concentrate on the graphics and bugs for now.

Extra changes can come later...

In some future Deluxe version!

[Heresson]

I am sorry for my spam activity in this forum.
The "traitor" post was just a spammy joke, and I regret it, though I must add that You need two for this kind of tango...

the reason for my presence in this forum is that I think there are things in city selection and placing that could be corrected in new version of Red Front, as long as it is not a simple conversion of the files.
If it is, if You do not add any new events, graphics, etc,
I understand my suggestions shall not be introduced into the game.
However, if You are going to make any changes...
I can't really show You what do I mean, due to technical reasons. If someone would be so kind to post a bmp screanshot of Poland and surroundings area so that I could point out what do I mean, I'd be very thankful.
For example, Warsaw should be more north, Bydgoszcz more east etc.
The reason for problems is partially that Nemo wanted to make Poland the smallest He could, so that he could fit the most He could of USSR and Germany.
Still, there are things that can be improved without changing the map.
As I mentioned, my points were that there should be upper Silesian conurbation and Breslau cities. Upper Silesia for its population (it is today bigger aglomeration than Warsaw, and it was great that day too) and industrial significance, Wroclaw too, but also for historical reasons. Wroclaw (Breslau) played a significant role in German defence, as it was turned into a stronghold (fameous Festung Breslau) and defended up to the end, resulting in very large, even on Polish conditions, destruction of the city.
If someone thinks the map would be crowded, it is not quite true, due to that some cities would be moved to their georgaphically accurate position, and at least one I'd advise to delete. Bydgoszcz isn't a big metropolis, and it played no significant role in ww2 as long as I can remember, except for a fameous (in Poland) episode from Fall Weiss.