Red Front for ToT

[fairline]

I'm going to have a go at making a graphically refurbished Test of Time version of Captain Nemo's great classic Red Front. I will NOT be changing the scenario text files (other than changes made for the purpose of conversion from FW to ToT), or renaming it, or sticking my name on the scenario I do plan to create new 15-bit unit graphics and I'd like to use Catfish's superb ToT terrain for the summer terrain files, with his permission.

If anyone wants to help out with this then please sign up below. I'm looking for people to work on terrain, city, people and icon graphics (Curt? ), and new sounds would be nice (Harry?). I can't do this alone and it would be a great team project!

Oh, and I'd like to get Nemo's approval Bit tricky that one, I know, as the guy gave up on civ years ago. If anyone knows how to contact him then please let me know.

[Harry Tuttle]

Sweet! I'll start looking through my sound links!

[curtsibling]

I can begin looking over the City, People and Icon Graphics for conversion right away!



I think this would be a great chance to Russify the city interface and game icons!

I will delve into the Red Front MGE folder right now!

I wonder if any more of our regulars are into helping with any technical aspects?

At any rate, this will be a milestone for Civ2!

[fairline]

Excellent - thanks gents

Anyone else up for this?

[fairline]

Before I have a go at converting RF1.4 with the Scotto converter, has anyone already done this?

[curtsibling]

I converted Dictator-3 MGE to ToT with no problems.

But I have an issue with the rules, that may or may not be connected to the conversion...

There is no way to tell what kind of ToT scenario Scotto's convertor makes.

As you know; there are Original, Sci-Fi and Fantasy versions.

I am using Original rules made by Tech, but I have no way of
knowing if the actual Dictator-3 ToT scene file is OK with it or not.

In the words of Spike Milligan; "It is Einen Mystery!"

....

[fairline]

Fantastic idea. But which Red Front do you have in mind, Captain Nemo's RF 1.4 or RF 1.5, Colwyn's modification of the original?

Unfortunately, both scens have major loopholes and some serious shortcomings.

In RF 1.4, "Too many units" is a major problem. The event that creates 2 Partisans if a Red Army unit is killed allows a player, who takes maximum advantage of it, to finish world conquest in late 1942. Changing the T-34/76 slot in RULES to JS-2 at the beginning of Summer 1944 is a tremendous benefit to a player who has built a large number of cheap T-34's.

In RF 1.5, "Too many units" and the Partisan loophole have been fixed. The T-34/76 slot problem remains in the version I just downloaded from Spanish Civ Site.

The other problem with 1.5 is that the author strongly advocates that the Russians found new cities in Siberia, has positioned Labor Brigades to do so and suggests that this is necessary to win the scenario. I have tested this idea and found it 100% incorrect, expanding existing cities is much more efficient than hacking away at the Siberian bush. I had little trouble capturing Berlin in January '44.

Agricola: I want if possible to stick with Nemo's original. I don't want to second-guess the man's thoughts on designing a scenario, and as has been seen with the host of very poor rip-offs of Exile's Imperialism 1870, I think a classic is best left untouched. Having said that, we're about to replace the graphics so who am I to say the text files shouldn't be changed on the basis of expert playtest comments from yourself.

What are people's thoughts here? I'm wary of messing with the scenario unless we get the unlikely approval of the Captain himself?

[fairline]

Originally posted by curtsibling
I converted Dictator-3 MGE to ToT with no problems.

But I have an issue with the rules, that may or may not be connected to the conversion...

There is no way to tell what kind of ToT scenario Scotto's convertor makes.

As you know; there are Original, Sci-Fi and Fantasy versions.

I am using Original rules made by Tech, but I have no way of
knowing if the actual Dictator-3 ToT scene file is OK with it or not.

In the words of Spike Milligan; "It is Einen Mystery!"

....

This is worrying Curt. Did you follow Catfish's notes on tweaks that need to be made to the sceanrio post-conversion? I think they're posted on his site.

[Harry Tuttle]

Well, given the improvements from Civ2 MGE to ToT I think it would be best to add a few things to the original. I think some of the events might need a look over, if only to see if something can be further realized.

If anything, I think that it is best to add, not really edit, Nemo's work. If an MGE event can be made more efficient by replacing it with a smaller ToT event, thereby freeing up event space while not changing playability, then I say do it.

Other respects, such as bugs, can be addressed, but I wouldn't go and change objectives. In other words, don't change the content of the story, just the book it's printed on.

The player in me wants to add and add to the game, but then again if we change it to drastically then it won't really be Nemo's Red Front anymore, now will it?

[Arthedain]

weird, I just thought of when Fairline were going to do his graphic update of Red Front and now I see this, excellent!

[techumseh]

I think a graphical upgrade and conversion to ToT do not require permission of the original author, as long as his authorship is acknowledges and any changes to the art are clearly labeled. I'm not so sure that other changes, eg. the events, are in the same category, however. Are they necessary?

I would be pleased to host this jewel on my site when it's done.

[curtsibling]

Originally posted by fairline


This is worrying Curt. Did you follow Catfish's notes on tweaks that need to be made to the sceanrio post-conversion? I think they're posted on his site.

I have started a thread to outline my ToT rule problem...

I hope it may just be a bug in my rules, and not the conversion.

Catfish, Tech or Merc will know for sure.

Meanwhile, I am off to Catfish's Cave (eek!) to see what wisdom awaits me there!

[Catfish]

Originally posted by fairline
I do plan to create new 15-bit unit graphics and I'd like to use Catfish's superb ToT terrain for the summer terrain files, with his permission.

No problem.

Originally posted by fairline
What are people's thoughts here? I'm wary of messing with the scenario unless we get the unlikely approval of the Captain himself?

I think it should be OK without the permission of the original author providing it's a straight conversion with only technical modifications - to fix what is basically a flawed conversion process. Maybe you could include other changes in a Red Front modpack.

Originally posted by fairline
Before I have a go at converting RF1.4 with the Scotto converter, has anyone already done this?

I converted RF nearly 2 years ago. The problem is that I've tampered with it since and didn't document the changes. Anyway, after reading the post in the other thread last night, I decided to reconvert it. The multiple files made it a large job and it took me a few hours.

The changes I've made are basically conversion fixes. However when faced with having to map the original sounds to units spread over 9 rules files, I thought, bugger that for a joke and ended up using the sounds and settings from my first conversion. As a result I believe there will be some difference in the sounds. If someone wants to rectify this then go for it.

Red Front 1.4 for Test of Time (1.07 MB)
Sound Files (1.83 MB)

Originally posted by fairline
This is worrying Curt. Did you follow Catfish's notes on tweaks that need to be made to the sceanrio post-conversion? I think they're posted on his site.

There are no such guides on my site. They're all hidden away in various forum threads.

Originally posted by curtsibling
I hope it may just be a bug in my rules, and not the conversion.

Catfish, Tech or Merc will know for sure.

Not necessarily. I remember converting John Ellis' Bonaparte II scenario a long time ago. It crashed every time I opened the city @PRODUCTION box. The problem was definitely in the .scn file, but I never actually got around to nailing it. I'll take a look, anyway.

Originally posted by curtsibling
Meanwhile, I am off to Catfish's Cave (eek!) to see what wisdom awaits me there!

Ha!

[curtsibling]

Nice work, Catfish - With the conversion, that's the first hurdle crossed!

I found the posts on ToT conversion problems at CFC.
I am now sure my rules problem lies within a preq loop, and not the actual conversion...

Time for a serious look at my text files...

[curtsibling]

Originally posted by Catfish
Not necessarily. I remember converting John Ellis' Bonaparte II scenario a long time ago. It crashed every time I opened the city @PRODUCTION box. The problem was definitely in the .scn file, but I never actually got around to nailing it. I'll take a look, anyway.

I found that my scen works fine until I add the 'rules.txt' file in.

If you have the time or inclination, take a look at the rules zip file in the 'stamping out bugs' thread.

Your technical expertise would be much appreciated!

Originally posted by Catfish
Ha!

Well you can't deny your graphics are bladdy nice!