History of the World XI [Diplomacy Game] [Organization II]

[Frank Johnson]

Deity there's plenty of examples of civs being tossed to the AI even in diplo games. I've come back to sub in many to find participation rates at about 2/3rds with quite a few abandoned civs. The only new thing I might be proposing is instead of losing whole sessions to these guys, why not just accept there will be losses and press on?

Your calls of "England cannot be AI" and "I need feudalism" with your 2 hour late ally are clear enough.

[deity]

Originally posted by Frank Johnson
Deity there's plenty of examples of civs being tossed to the AI even in diplo games. I've come back to sub in many to find participation rates at about 2/3rds with quite a few abandoned civs. The only new thing I might be proposing is instead of losing whole sessions to these guys, why not just accept there will be losses and press on?

The point is I agree but this is NOT what happened yesterday!

[Robert]

I think a sub should always first play for the person who left a leave of absence.
That's most fair, imho.

Btw, I think that this group is very reliable. Ok, sometimes someone is (a bit) late. But we don't have empty civs so far, and only had 2 or 3 sessions with only 1 AI civ. That's the best of all civ4 HOTW games I've been in.

[deity]

Things are looking bad for 3.13.

Trev, Frank, deity and Vile just played a NEW 4 way in 3.13 through the lobby. All went well during the session BUT after the session no one it seems can load the save and move units.

Trev and I went back into the lobby (with 2 civs as AI) and Trev, who hosted it, couldn't even end turn (we would not normally do this but after the HOTW experience we had to see if we had a useable save AND we DON'T!)

The ONLY thing that might work is if all 4 civs are humans... maybe the same deal with HOTW.

[Robert]

I've posted about the issue on the test forum.
If you can supply me the 3.13 (new) saves as well, I can submit those there as well.

[Toni]

So lets wait a couple of days see if we can make those last saves work, if not WE SHOULD GO BACK TO THE OLD PATCH AND PLAY VIA THE IP WITH DEITY HOSTING.

We should have no problems with the ip, the whole group is con reliable now and now that Lz is gone we won't have the Lz/beta conflict as well.

I think this is our best option currently - we just can't trust that new patch.

[Robert]

WE SHOULD GO BACK TO THE OLD PATCH AND PLAY VIA THE IP WITH DEITY HOSTING.

Agreed. Except that I should obviously host since I was thé reliable 3.03 host :P
But Deity hosting is fine with me as well. Just had to say that

[Asmodeous]

Originally posted by deity


The point is I agree but this is NOT what happened yesterday!

For the love of crap this forum software....

Anyway.

In Frank's defense, deity, yes it is.

The whole time it was going on you were vying for getting him to play England and repeated at least eight times that "england can't be AI. I'm screwed if it's AI."

Now, that's not to say you weren't kidding, but the constant repetition of it, kidding or not, does two things.

1. It gives the biased appearance that you intend to force a wait until someone is playing England so that you're not "screwed" by the AI being retarded.

2. It hammers people with a concept repetitively, and they end up waiting even if it would have been decided that they wouldn't have in any other situation.


Now, I don't think that you really meant it, I think that you were kidding about it (well, not about the being screwed part), but that doesn't mean others do. I can understand where Frank might be coming from on that point.

Me.

[Robert]

Well, Deity, maybe you didn't intend it that way, but I can see that others saw it that way.
Me myself was more busy organizing the game then who was subbing for who.

But I think that from now on we should place subs first at the civs that deserve it most, not those civ that 'require' it most, since that's a debatable thing.

If someone left a leave of absence, that civ deserves the sub first. Otherwise we look at objective measurable facts, like how often did one post in the story/organizational thread. How long before did someone know on beforehand that he couldn't make it.

Exception to that rule of course is if someone finds his own sub, or if a sub just wants to sub for a friend (and thus choses his civ itself)

We shouldn't go down the path of deciding which civ 'requires' it most.

I hope we won't continue to debate last saturday. I think we all agree that it wasn't our best session, and maybe some of us said stuff b/c of frustration we shouldn't have said, or we did things we shouldn't have done. If we continue this argument things may escalate.

Please let's agree on how we handle things in the future. I suggest the system in which we wait longer for more active players and players who left a leave of absence. The concequence is that we hardly wait for someone who just doesn't show up and isn't active during the week.

Everyone agrees?

That doesn't end all debates, but I think it'll make things much easier.

[deity]

Originally posted by CyberShy

WE SHOULD GO BACK TO THE OLD PATCH AND PLAY VIA THE IP WITH DEITY HOSTING.

Agreed. Except that I should obviously host since I was thé reliable 3.03 host :P
But Deity hosting is fine with me as well. Just had to say that

I agree Cyber.

Just see me as a back up host I reckon.

[deity]

Here the last save I did Cyber... hope it works!

[arvcran]

Originally posted by Beta
Guys and gal - my humble apologies again for being late this week. It was a bit of a topsy turvy week for me and my mind was simply elsewhere.

I had eye surgery on Thursday to correct a rare form of early-developing cataract in my left eye. Right eye is in two weeks. And three different sets of eye drops that my wife has to put in on different hourly schedules. And my sister-in-law over for dinner.

So again - sorry about that. Will be ready this Friday.

And yes - still a good session.

No Worries Inca took care of our Roman Neighbours with gifts from the Incan Superiror (The Elder)

:-)

[arvcran]

Originally posted by deity
Things are looking bad for 3.13.

Trev, Frank, deity and Vile just played a NEW 4 way in 3.13 through the lobby. All went well during the session BUT after the session no one it seems can load the save and move units.

Trev and I went back into the lobby (with 2 civs as AI) and Trev, who hosted it, couldn't even end turn (we would not normally do this but after the HOTW experience we had to see if we had a useable save AND we DON'T!)

The ONLY thing that might work is if all 4 civs are humans... maybe the same deal with HOTW.

Folks... the reason for this *non move-ability* is actualy a feature of the patch. The design is to prevent people from loading an MP game that was played by x people and be loaded and played with x minus y people. It is that simple. As long as we have all players join in a session equal to the previous one.

Hence we can try this:

Since CS is our *session leader* (He who is the guardian of the session) we can all leave the game by EXITING (not retireing) and then he can save the game where only 1 player is needed to get things moving :-).

This will avoid any issues where we are unable to get as many players in as the previous session.

I strongly recommend we continue with 3.13!

The whole point of the *feature* is to prevent people getting an advantage in playing out certain strats - it is an unfair advantage - as well as allowing people to play the game when not all players are present. Though I see the logistical problem of when peeps just are not able to make it ;-).

[Robert]

Aaaah, it's a feature...........
Hmmm, Firaxis maybe should've made it an option to include that feature as well

Good suggestion, to all leave the game, except 1 person.

Another suggestion: all players just unplug their network connection and see all players drop except themselves, and then save the game.

Then we have numerous saves and we aren't dependant on anyone.
But things should work thus if all players are available next session......

[arvcran]

Originally posted by CyberShy
Aaaah, it's a feature...........
Hmmm, Firaxis maybe should've made it an option to include that feature as well

Good suggestion, to all leave the game, except 1 person.

Another suggestion: all players just unplug their network connection and see all players drop except themselves, and then save the game.

Then we have numerous saves and we aren't dependant on anyone.
But things should work thus if all players are available next session......

An excellent counter suggestion - I like it!
But - this is only a theory ;-) we need to test it :-).
I.E. I posted as though I *knew* it was a feature - I am only making an educated guess as it were ;-)