History of the World XI [Diplomacy Game] [Organization II]

[Mr.Lincoln]

ok Lz, it seems u have done an awesoem job for me and i say with much inthusiasim, thank you. If you wish to play this session today then hand it to me, so be it. just fill me in with a PM or email, my new adress is mlynski@mmdgs.com-oh and if i can sub for any1 THIS session, id love to...but if not, ill be enjoying watchign the Chicago Cubs in the playoffs-GO CUBBIES GO

[Mr.Lincoln]

OH and id like tyo add-about the patch 303-313 issue. i realy dont enjoy going through the computer game core data crap and changing it around liike so asked for HOTW...i know its pretty simple to do but id realy rather not do it. if it is POSSIBLE you could update the map/mod to work with patch 313 that would be beyond magnificent for me. and LZ, once agian thank you for all and enjoy your last night for the next couple weeks on my civ, i may need you agian nin a few weeks. it aint that good of an example to be missing all these games, but your schedule is like dihrea to my schedule.

L

[Robert]

Lincoln: just patch to 3.13 and we're all fine
No need to get deep into your pc and tweak things!

[Beta]

Folks - some unexpected RL stuff just came up. I won't be able to start the game. Will make it there asap.

My apologies.

[LzPrst]

Old Boris Bearslayer isnt quite yet ready to give up the reins. I've been making a lot of preparations for this session and would love to finish off with this one if you dont mind horribly.

[dacole]

Originally posted by Toni
Well that is the problem with Dacole, he never tends to do diplo during the week, when most of us do it. He does his in depth diplo during the game, which is not right. He takes his time, using the excuse that well i'm doing diplo now, well Dacole you had the whole week to do that before the session. I hear he not even replying to ppl's msg oh well. Then i really intend to push him a bit

Ok perhaps I should leave. I have little time to do diplo during the week and today I was unable to leave work until just now. I get up at 6:30 every day and spend the day teaching at a community college then come home, grade, eat and go to bed. I try to post on Friday or on the weekend but I had students come to ask me questions right until now and I am not going to turn them away. I will leave it up to you if you want me to leave I will do so. I am not going to be able to play next week as I will be out of town anyway and I have not patched yet. If you want me to stay you are going to have to know most of my diplo will be in game I will probably post AT MOST once a week and I may not get to pm's in a timely manner. I am sorry but my job (as this is my first full time one after grad school) must come first. I hope to join you today when I come home but the choice is of course yours.

[Mr.Lincoln]

do u nneed me to sub?

[Robert]

Cole, can you join us?

[Robert]

Cole, regarding your not able to diplo during the week.
That's not as much as a problem, but maybe you can try to understand the others as well, and try to play a bit faster, less micromanagement etc. may already do the trick.

I hope you want to keep playing with us!

[Mr.Lincoln]

hey guy si cant get into teh game it says its full...so...do something...

[Mr.Lincoln]

guys wake up some1 ceck this forum NOW pls

[LzPrst]

As always a pleasure to play with you gentlemen and lady. too bad I can't keep running with you, but Russia was never my civ anyway. though I did get kind of attached to it.

Now this session had some serious flaws and that is unfortunate, and frustrations ran high. My own included, I had plans to do several things before the end of this session that I barely got started on. Most unfortunate. However, this is unfortunately part of the Diplogame way of life. There have been since the first civ4 diplogame technical difficulties and other issues that have actually been far worse than the one we suffered last session.

Suffice to say, patience is a requirement for these games. I know deity gets up early to play, and myself and cyber play from 0:30 until 3:30 in the morning hours, (toni I believe is +1 hour from that even? ) I know that there's lots of scheming and intrigue going on. I know that people invest a lot of time and effort into these games, which is really great, and it is only expected that we get upset when things just wont work, and when we get upset and tensions run high, venting occurs. This might come in many forms, but we should try to keep in mind that first and foremost, this is a game. and it is about having fun. if you're angry and upset, that is understandable. I completely lost my temper back in HOTW5 i think it was... when the combined armies of the 5 largest nations bore down upon the 3 smallest. it didnt make much sense, i was dead tired and I got pissed off, accused the whole game of being ridiculously affected by out of game affiliations and quit. a few days later, tempers had cooled and we got back on the wagon and continued the game and it was a good game. from this I learned that keeping a cool head is difficult, but necessary. regardless of circumstances and suspicions. it is just a game. and it is supposed to be a fun game.

I know that some of you are used more competitive environments, where no-holds barred, even outside the game, is frequent or even standard. Let us try to keep the diplogame genre competitive and fun. And name-calling and insinuations are not helpful in that regard. even if they were to be accurate.


But there were some major flaws with this session, and in order to try to iron out these problems so that this wont occur again I would like to make a suggestion. Not that I am playing again until HOTW12, but there should be an established adhered to rule that says if a sub is not found within 10 minutes of game start, then the civ must be left to the AI. we cant have 9 people sitting around waiting for 2. no matter how good the reason is. and as I said before, this is a game, and it is about having fun. If one player loses a session for whatever reason, and the others can play, then the player must take the hit that is the AI (or a sub) and try to recover from it. I also realize that a lot of diplomacy is dependent on players being present, and even more so during the week in the diplothread. But if a player cannot be present, then those who have deals with them must simply be forced to wait or make deals elsewhere. This might have dire consequences, but we really have to realize that this is a game, and that a disadvantage in one session is not the end of the world or the end of your civ. it may mean a lot of negative stuff, but it is to be expected, and furthermore, running a civilization is not supposed to be a completely predictable activity. as in life, try to see a positive opportunity in an otherwise negative occurence.

We need to take winning a little less seriously. I'm not saying we should all dress up in care bear costumes and hug, I am just saying that the main purpose of the game is enjoyment through competition, not out of game conflict rooted in the same competition run amok. If for whatever reason you encounter a disadvantage, then you have to make the best of it. this includes, losing allies, making bad decisions, having the AI screw you over and so on.


So, in conclusion. when people show up at the appointed time, the game starts. those who are late will have to suffer AI or sub (if available) management. (which is a strong incentive to try not to be too late). If you make a mistake, you make a mistake. In real life empire-governing you cant reload. The circumstances are irrelevant. With this many people giving up their friday evenings/nights or saturday morning sleep, it is not fair to make demands on behalf of those who cannot make the same commitment. I understand that people have other commitments and responsibilities, but that is in this regard not relevant. If you suspect having trouble getting to the game on time, find someone who will be willing to sub for you ahead of time.

Anyway, todays lesson is hopefully heeded and no further harsh words are thrown around that can make for personal grievances that may spin out of hand and become unsurmountable, potentially even breaking up the diplogame community.



I am now off to see the big world, going to Bali, Australia, New Zealand, Fiji, Hawaii, Vancouver, Toronto and New York, before sliding into the snowy airport at home 2 days before christmas. I'll be checking these forums from time to time to make sure you kids behave and to see the developments of this interesting storythread (which is by the way disgustingly unfrequented).

If any of you live along that route and would like to grab a beer, then I'm sure it would be great fun. Take care and play nice!

[deity]

Just a few comments on today..

Firstly, I can't open and move any of todays saves. The only one I can open is the one AD140 which I used to host the Direct IP session. I think this save is the file I d/l from Cyber's post last week (need to check that).

Can you all check your saves and see what is the latest one where you can open AND MOVE.

Secondly, in our conversations we need to separate out our shared frustrations with tech issues on the one hand and our policy on late/dropped players.

1) The fact that a new patch causes this sort of mess is incredible. Why some saves work and others do not is beyond me. We need to get it sorted ASAP. Frank's assertion that I was manipulating tech issues to coordinate game plans is totally ridiculous and entirely untrue. I really resent this. Especially considering that I came up with a solution that allowed any play at all.

2) Traditionally if a player is late or has a dusty computer or some other tech/connection problem we have usually waited up to an hour or more. When Cole dropped we got him back within 20 mins.

3) Whether we play on if just a majority show up where civs being run with AI's totally disatorts the game we've historically discussed it and arrived at a consensus I believe (eg waiting for Moker for 30 mins in HOTW7).

[deity]

So in this regard we need to discuss Cole's possible future absences.

For me, if a player is not 'reliable' (no offence to them because its often just personal circumstances) it effects strategy and player reliability is unwittingly is taken into account in future games.

[deity]

OK, I posted before reading this..

Originally posted by LzPrst
There should be an established adhered to rule that says if a sub is not found within 10 minutes of game start, then the civ must be left to the AI.

This is too short. I think 20 mins at least and have posted this in the past but sometimes goodwill does prevail and we waited an hour for Toni once because he's a reliable and trusted diplo player with a known track record. So we need to consider reputation in this as well as game impacts. I do agree on consensus.

We cant have 9 people sitting around waiting for 2. no matter how good the reason is. and as I said before, this is a game, and it is about having fun. If one player loses a session for whatever reason, and the others can play, then the player must take the hit that is the AI (or a sub) and try to recover from it.

I totally agree. When it reaches the agreed point that a civ must run as AI then we play on - but not when people are here to sub and some want to play on without them. Today we had a sub for England and I was fine with that. If we had no sub and no Daniel Cole I would have played on and done different in-game deals with other civs.

1) So in summary how about 20 min max wait for players (+relevant goodwill)

2) And if 8 or9/11 players show we play on even if no sub available