2K Games Announces Sid Meier's Civilization IV: Warlords.

[Generaldoktor]

Originally posted by Solver
2K bakrupt? They released Oblivion yesterday. It's going to rake in some serious money.

Well, that must be the game product they sidelined our patch for. I'll probably never play that game, but maybe they rushed that for the bucks too. Sometimes, companies can do fast introductions of new products to stave off the wolves, (see U.S. carmaker, Chrysler, in the Eighties,) but mostly, they're looking to just rake the field one more time before sheriff nails the barn door shut.

[Solver]

I don't think Oblivion was rushed out. It was actually intended for release three months ago, but got delayed.

[Generaldoktor]

Well, I guess we're getting sidelined talking about 2K, instead of the XP, but the guy at CF seemed real convinced once again we had been had; and that Civ4, even original version, had suffered due to corporate vagaries.

I don't know; I'm not a beta tester guy with inside info, I don't live in England, I don't take time to read the computer game trades (particularly when they whitewash certain products , ) but if it is true they're in danger of going under, I don't see how they can adequately support this long-lived game concept.

[Willem]

Originally posted by Generaldoktor
Well, I guess we're getting sidelined talking about 2K, instead of the XP, but the guy at CF seemed real convinced once again we had been had; and that Civ4, even original version, had suffered due to corporate vagaries.

I wouldn't believe too much of what some malcontent over at CivFanatics has to say. Alot of people there just like to rant in order to get noticed, even though they don't actually know anything.

but if it is true they're in danger of going under, I don't see how they can adequately support this long-lived game concept.

If they do go under, the Civ franchise will just get sold to someone else. It's not going to affect the game all that much.

[Generaldoktor]

Originally posted by Willem
If they do go under, the Civ franchise will just get sold to someone else. It's not going to affect the game all that much.

It might affect the quality and release date of the patch and the expansion, though; I guess I do understand from this thread that we're supposed to get both. These both would be, seemingly, 2K's responsibility, which they conceivably might be doing or have to do later with "limited" resources.

[Solver]

Every game, to some degree, becomes a "victim of corporate vagaries", that's how it works because game-making companies are businesses. The difference lies in how bad it is. If a release date for a game gets pushed up one week, that's not a problem. When a game's release is forced 3 months before it's supposed to be ready, that's a big problem.

But really there's no indication whatsoever of Take2 going under. They're still one of the wealthiest publishers, they have just released a new game that is guaranteed to have very good sales, they recently bought Firaxis which sort of implies they have money...

[Alexander I]

Even if the expansion pack is lackluster, Civ4 is so excellent that any new content would only make it better.

[Willem]

Originally posted by Generaldoktor


It might affect the quality and release date of the patch and the expansion, though;

Civilization is a big name. If Take 2 is having troubles they're going to sell it off, along with Firaxis, long before they hit bottom. The money they make from it, especially with Civ 4 being so successful, could keep them afloat for quite some time. They're not going to just pull the plug without getting rid of a few assets first. In the meantime, Firaxis will continue to work on the game.

[sabrewolf]

it's like the printer industry: the machines are dead cheap and probably barely cover the cost of production. but the ink is massively more expensive... basically milking the frequent user (in fact, a toner would cost 80% of the cost of the whole printer with a half-full starting toner i bought recently)

same with the games: they hope to make a profit with the basic game... but the big money is made with the expansion sales...

i mean, come on... hardly any real player cares about the scenario stuff (i am barely aware that it actually exists). new leaders & new civs & new maps --> simple mods. the only real added value to the community is the further patching, more gameplay (i hope there's more than just the 2 traits) and more tools...

but then... firaxis deserves to earn something, even if it is "only" an XP

[Yosho]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger


You can balance that by making it the only trait the leader has.

Hmmm...I guess, or at least by only giving it to a leader who's other trait is something weak like cultural, giving him a weak UU, ect. Still, considering how hard it is to increase food production in this game, anything that could make cities grow significantly faster for the whole game including the early game still seems like it'd be still be so strong I'd never use anyone else.

[Locutus]

Originally posted by sabrewolf
same with the games: they hope to make a profit with the basic game... but the big money is made with the expansion sales...

Nope, that's not how it works. In the gaming industry, 8 out of 10 games lose money, 1 breaks even and 1 makes a LARGE profit, enough to keep the publisher afloat (hopefully). With a million+ copies sold and still going strong, Civ4 has already made 2K Games big money. The XP will of course likely make a nice profit as well, but XPs are made because the publisher knows they will sell, not because they're the only/primary source of profit. When it's decided to do an XP for any game, the real money's already been made -- they're just looking to make the most of a rare opportunity.

i mean, come on... hardly any real player cares about the scenario stuff (i am barely aware that it actually exists). new leaders & new civs & new maps --> simple mods. the only real added value to the community is the further patching, more gameplay (i hope there's more than just the 2 traits) and more tools...

That's your opinion, I quite like scenarios myself. But yeah, this XP isn't incredibly revolutionary, it clearly seems to be intended as quick cash -- that's capitalism for you (there are companies that are a lot worse in this respect). It's up to the gamers to decide if they want to give them that cash...

[Generaldoktor]

Originally posted by Locutus
But yeah, this XP isn't incredibly revolutionary, it clearly seems to be intended as quick cash -- that's capitalism for you (there are companies that are a lot worse in this respect). It's up to the gamers to decide if they want to give them that cash...

Okay, I'll give them the cash , (this time.) Personal Memo to "Ghengis Khan," President, 2K Games; "Enclosed please find 450 gold [or whatever they're charging,] so you do not have corporate keshiks crush my little gaming world, at least for the coming year. You are a great leader and I admire you greatly, I will gladly convert to your religion!"

P.S. I like the way Yosho was trying to get back on topic. )

[Willem]

Originally posted by Generaldoktor


Okay, I'll give them the cash , (this time.) Personal Memo to "Ghengis Khan," President, 2K Games; "Enclosed please find 450 gold [or whatever they're charging,] so you do not have corporate keshiks crush my little gaming world, at least for the coming year. You are a great leader and I admire you greatly, I will gladly convert to your religion!"

I see you're already getting the hang of the new vassal state concept. You should do well with the XP.

[Willem]

Originally posted by Locutus
But yeah, this XP isn't incredibly revolutionary, it clearly seems to be intended as quick cash -- that's capitalism for you (there are companies that are a lot worse in this respect).

Especially when you consider the time frame involved. 8 months or so is not a lot of time to flesh out a really dynamic expansion. They probably could have added a number of other things with a few more months to work on it.

[Generaldoktor]

Originally posted by Willem


Especially when you consider the time frame involved. 8 months or so is not a lot of time to flesh out a really dynamic expansion. They probably could have added a number of other things with a few more months to work on it.

Which is exactly my point, the potential utility and success of this expansion may have become "a victim of corporate vagaries."

Originally posted by Willem

I see you're already getting the hang of the new vassal state concept. You should do well with the XP.

I think the idea of aggressive vassal states, utilizing some of the game's famous incompetents, is fascinating. Something like "Tokugawa, kill them, (before I kill you!) " Feel free to substitute Montezuma or any of a number of others. Wasn't that last Star Trek movie something like that, with a "slave race" doing all the dirty work?