2K Games Announces Sid Meier's Civilization IV: Warlords.

[Alexander I]

Guess this is why there's only 6 new civs, Civ Expansions reaching a new low. Oh well. I'm glad it's coming out soon anyway and will be one of the first to buy it no matter how worthless it is. Such is my Civ loyalty.*

*Note: This loyalty does not apply to the Call to Power franchise.

[Locutus]

Originally posted by Alexander01
Guess this is why there's only 6 new civs, Civ Expansions reaching a new low.

There are 10 new leaders, this is more than either XP for Civ3 had. That will bring the total number of leaders to 36, more than Civ3 + PtW + C3C combined.

Key restriction for adding new civs is the leader art, that's is the hardest/slowest/most expensive to develop.

[Willem]

Originally posted by Alexander01
Guess this is why there's only 6 new civs, Civ Expansions reaching a new low. Oh well. I'm glad it's coming out soon anyway and will be one of the first to buy it no matter how worthless it is. Such is my Civ loyalty.*

*Note: This loyalty does not apply to the Call to Power franchise.

Who knows, maybe the first patch for Warlords will include some of the content that they would have liked to put into the XP but didn't have time to implement.

[Willem]

Originally posted by Locutus


There are 10 new leaders, this is more than either XP for Civ3 had. That will bring the total number of leaders to 36, more than Civ3 + PtW + C3C combined.

Key restriction for adding new civs is the leader art, that's is the hardest/slowest/most expensive to develop.

But with 2 new traits, that leaves about 7 possible combinations unaccounted for. My guess is that they would have included more leaders for existing civs given more time. I'm sure with a few more months they could have come up with at least 2 or 3 more to include.

I'm not complaining though, this Vassal State concept is intriqueing me enough to want to get the XP regardless. I think it's going to add a very interesting wrinkle to the gameplay.

[player1]

Well there is always time for 2nd expansion...

[Alexander I]

Well, I can assure you that I will be buying any and all expansions that come out for Civ4.

So Take Two, if you want more of my money, make as many cheap li'l expansions as you can, because you've got at least one guaranteed customer.

[potoroo]

Originally posted by Generaldoktor
I think the idea of aggressive vassal states, utilizing some of the game's famous incompetents, is fascinating. Something like "Tokugawa, kill them, (before I kill you!)".

Surely if they're weak enough to accept vassal status they won't be much good in a war anyway. The way I see it vassal status will be just another thing the AIs will get mad at me for when I refuse. I'd like to see some change to the AI so they remember they're trying to win after the middle game instead of settling into their cozy little love fest once the one AI they didn't like has been knocked off.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by potoroo
Surely if they're weak enough to accept vassal status they won't be much good in a war anyway.

Remember how much India contributed to UK's war efforts during WWII...

And that's not even a vassal, that's a colony.

[Alexander I]

Maybe a vassal relationship like Henry the Lion to Frederick Barbarossa. When he's on your side, he's deadly, when he's not, he can be a real rebellious pain in the bottom.

[Locutus]

Originally posted by Willem
But with 2 new traits, that leaves about 7 possible combinations unaccounted for.

So? Currently there are 2 unused combos as well, one because it's too powerful and unbalanced (Ind/Phi) and one because there just aren't enough leaders to fill every spot (Cre/Org). Adding 1 trait gives you 36 options and 36 leaders, forcing you to use all options including the unbalanced ones (new traits may well add new unbalanced combos).

Civ is not an exact science, they don't say "hey, we're adding 2 new traits giving us 45 combos, therefore we have to add 19 more leaders". That's not how it works. As I said (and have been saying for years), artwork is constraint #1 for these types of games. Especially with high-maintenance stuff like leaders, they determine how much art they can add first, the rest comes later. Had they decided to add 6 new leaders, we probably would only have seen only 1 new trait, had they decided to add 18, we probably would've seen 3.

[Generaldoktor]

Originally posted by potoroo

Surely if they're weak enough to accept vassal status they won't be much good in a war anyway. The way I see it vassal status will be just another thing the AIs will get mad at me for when I refuse. I'd like to see some change to the AI so they remember they're trying to win after the middle game instead of settling into their cozy little love fest once the one AI they didn't like has been knocked off.

I hope you realize a certain amount of the posts here are made in jest!

Originally posted by Alexander01

*Note: This loyalty does not apply to the Call to Power franchise.

Ages of Man, which I am starting to enjoy very much, was a brilliant amateur effort by Mr. Karpinski. Otherwise, I think everyone accepts CTP has been dead for five years. Even me; that was the first TBS I ever played.

Originally posted by Locutus

Especially with high-maintenance stuff like leaders, they determine how much art they can add first, the rest comes later. Had they decided to add 6 new leaders, we probably would only have seen only 1 new trait, had they decided to add 18, we probably would've seen 3.

All the more reason for not messing with Adolf. Is there anybody who would really want to play as him??

[Locutus]

I moved the Stalin/Hitler debate to a new thread, it was taking over this one. Please don't discuss it here anymore.

[Alexander I]

Well, I guess I could bring up the old vassalage topic again, then. You should be able to make decisions on behalf of your vassals and if they refuse to obey them (should be a serious and fairly rare thing to do) they rebel against you and have to be crushed.

[Willem]

The Vassal State thing should lead to some interesting power blocs. Imagine a couple of civs with a defensive alliance, each with a vassal state or two, vs another two civs with their vassals. I think world wars are going to be a regular feature in civ games.

[padillah]

Maybe this is just another civic. Currently it goes straight from Slavery to freedom, maybe they are looking for the civic in between.

Um, costs less than slavery but ups hammers by 50% ? 100% ?

Tom P.