2K Games Announces Sid Meier's Civilization IV: Warlords.

[Alexander I]

Originally posted by Locutus
William of Orange was definitely not in any way 'seafaring'. He may well never even have seen the sea in his life. Well, that might be a slight stretch (although I certanly don't remember any major event in his life taking place anywhere near the sea), but he was very much a 'man of the land'. He financed others to control the Dutch 'navy' (it was more like a band of corsairs than a real navy during his lifetime), he did not command it himself.

Not that William of Orange, silly!

[Locutus]

That's who we generally refer to as William of Orange. There were at least a dozen people with that name, if you're refering to a specific one other than William the Silent you should specify it.

[Willem]

Originally posted by monkspider
The problem I have with bringing back the seafaring/agricultural traits is that how many leaders are there who were actually agricultural or seafaring personally? The nations may have been, but not the leaders themselves.

The traits don't necessarily reflect the personal abilities of the leaders, just their government's policies. For instance, how does a leader get to be personally Expansive, aside from gaining 100 lbs. That's purely a policy derived trait.

[Yosho]

Like I said before, anything that directly boosts food prouction would be too powerful. "expansive" only increases health, which only increases food production a little bit if you have a very large city without many health resources. Anything that can give food right away to a small growing city would just be unbalanced.

[Rook]

Originally posted by monkspider
The problem I have with bringing back the seafaring/agricultural traits is that how many leaders are there who were actually agricultural or seafaring personally? The nations may have been, but not the leaders themselves.

Wasn't Thomas Jefferson a botanist of sorts? I think I read something about that recently.

[Willem]

Originally posted by Rook


Wasn't Thomas Jefferson a botanist of sorts? I think I read something about that recently.

But Thomas Jefferson isn't a leader in the game, nor will he be. At least in this expansion. There's going to be 10 leaders and 6 civs, and we already know who the other 4 leaders are.

[Alexander I]

Originally posted by Locutus
That's who we generally refer to as William of Orange. There were at least a dozen people with that name, if you're refering to a specific one other than William the Silent you should specify it.

How 'bout the one that became William III of England. He sailed across the channel.

[TheArsenal]

Originally posted by Ninot
It would be weak to include Churchill and Stalin, Stalin perticularly, and leave out Hitler.

Use his diplomatic mouth piece, von Ribbentrop.

[Alexander I]

Originally posted by TheArsenal


Use his diplomatic mouth piece, von Ribbentrop.

But then you'd have to use Stalin's diplomat -- Molotov.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Yosho
Like I said before, anything that directly boosts food prouction would be too powerful. "expansive" only increases health, which only increases food production a little bit if you have a very large city without many health resources. Anything that can give food right away to a small growing city would just be unbalanced.

You can balance that by making it the only trait the leader has.

[Alexander I]

Watch out! It's Old Farmer Brown, coming to rule the world!
Watch out, Genghis Khan! Your horde can't stand up to his agricultural might! Watch out Alexander the Great! He'll farm you to death!

It just doesn't seem right.

[Generaldoktor]

Read the whole thread, still wondering why.

Don't know why Stalin and Churchill are in, unless to satisfy WWII freaks, scenario present or not. Russia and England already have enough leaders.

This Hitler talk is insane. The international Jewish community as well as the Germans will go nuts. Look how namby-pamby the game producers were about religion, you really think they're going to take a chance on this?

By the way, Hitler was an effective military leader until about late '42, which is why his generals "generally" didn't have the stature to overrule him. Guderian, Manstein and his personal favorite, Model, still occasionally did, right up till 1945. The map of German conquest, circa Summer, '42; is quite impressive.

Throne room This game already runs like sh-t on my advanced system without any more showy graphics. I never played Civ2, (but have a copy somewhere in the garage,) but that cheesy "palace" in Civ3 popping up was a constant break in my concentration on strategy.

Rumors on CF thread about patch is that 2K is about bankrupt. I expect them to do a casual, sloppy job now on the patch, because they can get real dinaro by holding back needed improvements for the now-rushed expansion. Opposing opinions, as always, are respected; and disregarded.

If agricultural is such a gamebuster, why was it in past versions? Leader traits certainly also, BTW, reflect the civilization that leader historically evolved. I'm the only Expansive guy you'll ever meet, I'm up to about 250 lbs now on a 5'7" frame.

Ironic we have an expansion emphasizing "Warlords," after all that talk about how this (Civ4) was supposed to be the "builders'" Civ. The people have spoken! In between the cutthroat that MP evolved into and all this rue over lost "Great Generals," it looks like nobody but me is playing a builders' game. I may not even be all that interested in this XP, unless they finally pay some attention to the continued technical problems in this game. And early summer is too early, people are still digesting the original game system!

[Zoid]

Originally posted by Generaldoktor

Rumors on CF thread about patch is that 2K is about bankrupt. I expect them to do a casual, sloppy job now on the patch, because they can get real dinaro by holding back needed improvements for the now-rushed expansion. Opposing opinions, as always, are respected; and disregarded.

First the Atari crap with Civ3 and now Take 2 goes bankrupt (due to the fire?) Firaxis has no luck with their publishers...

[Solver]

2K bakrupt? They released Oblivion yesterday. It's going to rake in some serious money.

[Alexander I]

Originally posted by Generaldoktor
Ironic we have an expansion emphasizing "Warlords," after all that talk about how this (Civ4) was supposed to be the "builders'" Civ. The people have spoken! In between the cutthroat that MP evolved into and all this rue over lost "Great Generals," it looks like nobody but me is playing a builders' game.

Yeah, most of the suggestions I've heard is that there are not enough militant characters to attack you (basically just Montezuma, maybe Genghis Khan) and the loss of the great general has been strongly felt.