Fantasy Football Discussion Thread

[Al B. Sure!]

The year Namath won the Super Bowl, he went:

187/380 3147yds 15tds 17ints 49.2%

Last year, David Garrard went:
314/516 3597yds 15tds 10ints 60.9%

It's not even close! David Garrard is better than Joe Namath!

[Al B. Sure!]

I really don't see how that's pertinent wrt to Running Backs. LT has scored more TDs at a faster clip than anyone, including Jim Brown. Running backs had better stats in days gone by than they do now, taking into adjustment the game being much less focussed on passing.

That's actually misleading. QB's were just plain less efficient back in the day. Unitas' career completion % is 54.6%; Namath's is 50.1%; Bradshaw's 51.9%.

You flat out would not see a starting QB in today's league completing 51% of his passes (well, except in Oakland).

They actually threw the ball a fair amount back then and threw it deeper than today's checkdowns. Look back at my Namath/Garrard comparison. Garrard threw for only 550 more yards even though he had 127 more completions than Namath (17% more yards on 67% more completions).

[Ben Kenobi]

12739 77 3554 13 16293
12490 138 3955 15 16445 S

Dorsett, great back, but again, inferior to LT across the board.

So I'd rank them right now, assuming LT were to retire tomorrow:

Jim Brown, Barry Sanders, Walter Payton, Emmitt Smith, LT, Faulk, [[Marcus Allen]]
Dickerson, Dorsett, Martin, [[Bettis]], [[Thurman Thomas]], [[Franco Harris]], [[Riggens]], OJ......Campbell , ......... Gale Sayers

[Ben Kenobi]

They actually threw the ball a fair amount back then and threw it deeper than today's checkdowns. Look back at my Namath/Garrard comparison. Garrard threw for only 550 more yards even though he had 127 more completions than Namath (17% more yards on 67% more completions).

So how does that change my point that running was a more important part of the game?

[Al B. Sure!]

God I wish Jamal Lewis didn't go to jail or Ricky Williams wasn't a pothead... those two would have given LT a run for his money the past 10 years had they not been boneheads.

Ben, come back in 7 years and we'll compare AP and CJ to LT. LT is not all that, especially not in today's game.

[Al B. Sure!]

So how does that change my point that running was a more important part of the game?

If it's more important anyway, then defenses are keyed in on it, so it's more difficult to run.

[Imran Siddiqui]

It is fun to see how Ben believes the game hasn't changed.

[Ben Kenobi]

Right, you make it sound like he had weak competition.

Holmes, Alexander, James, Lewis, Barber, Johnson. Outrushed em all. I find it funny that you don't even mention his greatest competition, Edgerrin James.

[Al B. Sure!]

Of the top 5 RB's in career rushing yards, 3 played this decade. Of the top 10, 5 have played this decade. Of the top 20, 10 have played this decade. Top 25, 13 have played this decade (and it will be 14 if Clinton Portis gets 27 more yards).

Just like QB's, RB's are statistically better in today's game. That just means the game has shifted towards the offense.

[Ben Kenobi]

It is fun to see how Ben believes the game hasn't changed.

Which is why I argue that RBs have become less important? Right, do you even read my posts?

[Imran Siddiqui]

Of the top 5 RB's in career rushing yards, 3 played this decade. Of the top 10, 5 have played this decade. Of the top 20, 10 have played this decade. Top 25, 13 have played this decade (and it will be 14 if Clinton Portis gets 27 more yards).

Just like QB's, RB's are statistically better in today's game. That just means the game has shifted towards the offense.

Bingo. Al, you are schooling Ben. Keep it up

[Ben Kenobi]

RB's are statistically better in today's game. That just means the game has shifted towards the offense.

Which is why Walter Payton and Jim Brown are still relevant? Sorry, I don't buy it. Running Backs last much longer these days, which is why their career totals are higher. Brown only rushed for 9 years.

What about rushing? Just the opposite. In modern times, most RBs have a median carry length of three yards. I suspect that’s been the case for the majority of RBs for a long time. LenDale White and his 3.9 YPC last season? Median rush of 3 yards. Adrian Peterson and his 4.8 YPC? Median rush of 3 yards.

You’ve probably never thought about this before, but how many yards do you think the average QB gets on his median pass attempt? The answer is zero, and for most of NFL history, it was less than that. 2008 was the greatest passing season of all time (by adjusted net yards per attempt), but even this past season, the median pass attempt probably went for only one or two yards.

So there you have it.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Btw, do we also realize that Tomlinson led the league in rushing only twice in his career? And in Rushing Yards per Game only once? (And once for Yards from Scrimmage)

[Al B. Sure!]

Imran, from over a month ago:

Because this is fun, let's look at the top 3 rushers, yards from scrimmage, and TD scorers during the height of LT's career:

2002
Rushing: Ricky Williams, LT, Priest Holmes
Total yards: Priest Holmes, Ricky Williams, LT
Rush/Rec TDs: Priest Holmes, Shaun Alexander, Clinton Portis/Ricky Williams (tie)

2003
Rushing: Jamal Lewis, Ahman Green, LT
Total yards: LT, Jamal Lewis, Ahman Green
TDs: Priest Holmes, Ahman Green, LT

2004
Rushing: Curtis Martin, Shaun Alexander, Corey Dillon (LT was #7)
Total yards: Tiki Barber, Edgerrin James, Curtis Martin
TDs: Shaun Alexander, LT, Tiki Barber/Priest Holmes (tie)

2005
Rushing: Shaun Alexander, Tiki Barber, Larry Johnson (LT was #6)
Total yards: Tiki Barber, Larry Johnson, Shaun Alexander
TDs: Shaun Alexander, Larry Johnson, LT

2006
Rushing: LT, Larry Johnson, Frank Gore
Total yards: Steven Jackson, LT, Larry Johnson
TDs: LT, Larry Johnson, Marion Barber/Steven Jackson/Willie Parker (tie)

2007
Rushing: LT, Adrian Peterson, Brian Westbrook
Total yards: Brian Westbrook, LT, Clinton Portis
TDs: LT, Joe Addai, Adrian Peterson


LT has his name up there more than anyone else, although this is partially because he emerged during the twilight years of guys like Curtis Martin and Corey Dillon and then guys like Steven Jackson and Adrian Peterson arrived too late on the scene. I'll give him credit for showing up so often, but let's not get ahead of ourselves here...

2002, the best back was Priest Holmes with Ricky Williams a close second
2003, the best back was possibly LT but Ahman Green and Jamal Lewis deserve mention (and Priest was a TD machine)
2004, Shaun Alexander scored TDs while Tiki Barber and Curtis Martin racked up the yardage (no sight of LT except as TD scorer)
2005, Shaun Alexander's big year though Tiki and Larry Johnson made noise (no sight of LT except as TD scorer)
2006, LT's big year though Larry Johnson was also dominating (end of Johnson's career here)
2007, LT again but Adrian Peterson has emerged and taken the reins of best back in the league.

So to sum, between 2002 and 2007, three years (2003, 2006, and 2007), LT was arguably the best back in the league. Impressive but not incredible.

[Imran Siddiqui]

My top 5:

1) Jim Brown
2) Barry Sanders
3) O.J. Simpson
4) Walter Payton
5) Eric Dickerson

Faulk and Smith are not far behind Dickerson