Fantasy Football Discussion Thread

[Al B. Sure!]

TD is hampered by the fact that he's a system RB every bit as much as Kurt Warner was a system QB. He was very good, certainly, but you could put me at RB for the Broncos in the late 90s-early 00s and get 1500 yards at 4.5 YPC. Well, until I broke all the bones in my body after the second hit anyway. That O-line was just ridiculous, and zone blocking was too hard for DEFs to counter.

Yeah but as Sloww mentioned earlier in this thread, Montana and Young were system QB's... If we start discounting guys because of who they had around them and the playcalling of their coaches, who are we left with? Should Terry Bradshaw be in the Hall of Fame since his success had as much to do with defense and his receivers? Or maybe Lynn Swann and John Stallworth don't belong because Bradshaw made them good? If we start discounting guys because they had other stars around them, then who will be left for the Hall of Fame except Barry Sanders? I guess Archie Manning would for the first time become a shoe-in for the Hall

Not saying TD should get Hall consideration... I think longevity should mean more. Gale Sayers, I think, is an iffy Hall of Fame guy but considering when he played makes his achievements even more remarkable.

I'm just pointing out that if we go by a few years' worth of production, there are a lot of guys (like TD, but also Jamal Lewis when he was young and fresh, and many others) who briefly put up amazing numbers but then fell off a cliff. I think Gale Sayers is more unique for WHEN he played than for what he did in those few years.

[MRT144]

Steve Young had one thing that totally pushes him beyond system QB and that's his freaking legs. I'm also impressed with the fact that he did so much with so little time considering he backed up Montana for years and years.

[Solomwi]

Because if I had one game to win and could take one or the other in his prime, taking Bo over TD is the easiest decision I'll ever make. Not to take anything away from what Davis did, but he did it on some really good teams with a veteran Hall of Fame QB, an Alex Gibbs offensive line and no serious competition for carries. Bo showed up in October to join a backfield which already had a Hall of Famer in residence and still managed 73.2 ypg. When he took over a game, he did it like no one else could. Davis had a great run, and was a fine back, but on prime ability alone, isn't in the same league.

[Al B. Sure!]

Steve Young had one thing that totally pushes him beyond system QB and that's his freaking legs. I'm also impressed with the fact that he did so much with so little time considering he backed up Montana for years and years.

Steve Young is the greatest QB of all time. Still waiting for someone to debate me on this one. People talk about other guys behind revolutionary but I think Young changed how we view the QB position today. Yeah, Peyton Manning might have more in common with Marino or Kelly, but most QB's in this league (Romo, Rodgers, Roethlisberger, Cutler, Eli Manning, etc. as well as all the young guys like Quinn, Sanchez, Tebow, etc.) are more of the Steve Young-mold of mobile and highly accurate QB's who always look to do something, anything, whenever they get the ball. The pure stationary pocket passer in an Air Coryell-style of offense has been pushed the side the last decade.

[MRT144]

I'd say Mcnabb is more Steve Young than anyone else you mentioned.

In fact, if Andy Reid wasn't such an abysmal coach, I could see mcnabb having a ring by now.

[Al B. Sure!]

I'd say Mcnabb is more Steve Young than anyone else you mentioned.

McNabb doesn't have the greatest short yardage accuracy. He throws to receiver's feet all the time. The thing about the guys I mentioned (and Jeff Garcia, Young's successor, as well), is that they are all near-perfect on screens and short dump-offs, as they should be.

(Quinn, Sanchez, and Tebow, obviously, are not near-perfect at anything, obviously, but they are all definitely better short yardage guys than deep ball guys)

[Al B. Sure!]

I'd say Mcnabb is more Steve Young than anyone else you mentioned.

In fact, if Andy Reid wasn't such an abysmal coach, I could see mcnabb having a ring by now.

If McNabb had a receiver or even a consistent running game, he would have had a ring by now. The one year he had TO, even with TO missing games, he put up career numbers and went to the Super Bowl and lost a close one.

I don't think people appreciate just how bad the Eagles receivers have been over the years... There was a while when it was Freddie Mitchell, Todd Pinkston, and James Thrash. I mean really? What happened to Mitchell and Pinkston in Free Agency is enough evidence of their crappiness... Pinkston went unsigned after his stint with the Eagles and Mitchell was cut in preseason by the Kansas City Chiefs who felt he couldn't compete with freaking Johnnie Morton and Eddie Kennison. Neither of them played a down with anybody and for years, they were the #1 and #2 on the Eagles! James Thrash (and Greg Lewis for that matter) have spent their post-Eagles careers buried on depth charts.

Then you sprinkle in some Reggie Brown who was trash, Donte Stallworth in a single year which McNabb missed most of, and Kevin Curtis... really, it's kind of unfair that when the Eagles finally get a good receiver in Desean Jackson, they trade McNabb.

It's so perplexing that a coach like Andy Reid who loves the pass more than just about any coach EVER has such unconcern for the WR position and such inability to evaluate WR talent.

[MRT144]

You know what the worst thing about the Eagles Superbowl appearance was? I didn't even remember they were in it.

But yeah, Andy Reid can solely be blamed for their poor rosters because he's the GM despite whatever title might be floating around the Eagles offices.

[Al B. Sure!]

You know what the worst thing about the Eagles Superbowl appearance was? I didn't even remember they were in it.

But yeah, Andy Reid can solely be blamed for their poor rosters because he's the GM despite whatever title might be floating around the Eagles offices.

Was the last part sarcastic? If so, Andy Reid has a HUGE amount of control over who gets drafted. I don't even know who the GM is. I think Hackert went to the Browns or something.

And no... the worst part of the Super Bowl was McNabb literally choking (on his own vomit). It was a very close one though. The Patriots won 24-21. Adam Vinatieri, of course, being the difference.

I heard Freddie Mitchell was leading the huddle at some point because McNabb was physically sick from the stress.

[-Jrabbit]

The game that will forever define McNabb's career imho.

[SlowwHand]

McNabb is a Black QB. Most Black QB's haven't heard of the term "touch" in regard to passing a football. They throw it long or run with the ball. That's not racist, that's just the facts.
Notice I said "most". If someone wants to take issue with my opinion, go ahead, that's your right.

[Al B. Sure!]

McNabb is a Black QB. Most Black QB's haven't heard of the term "touch" in regard to passing a football. They throw it long or run with the ball. That's not racist, that's just the facts.
Notice I said "most". If someone wants to take issue with my opinion, go ahead, that's your right.

There's definitely a certain type that develops when college coaches get their hands on a Black QB... but, I will say this... that type isn't exclusive to Black QB's, it's just the Black QB's seem to be more likely to make it to the NFL like this or not have a position change.

Temple's QB's over the last few years were white guys in that mold (well, except for Stewart who is Black). All those random QB's from crappy schools that you never hear about during their college careers tend to be scramblers who don't have any touch. White, black, whatever... it's still the same. It's just the high profile ones who make it to the NFL tend to be Black.

[Solomwi]

If, as it seems, your point is that McNabb has no touch on his passes, then yes, it's patently racist (Smith is black; black people do X; therefore, Smith does X). If you were making some other point, I have no idea what it is.

[Al B. Sure!]

If, as it seems, your point is that McNabb has no touch on his passes, then yes, it's patently racist (Smith is black; black people do X; therefore, Smith does X). If you were making some other point, I have no idea what it is.

I think he's also referring to Vick, Culpepper, Russell, Kordell Stewart, Seneca Wallace, guys like that.

I hadn't paid enough attention to Jacksonville to be able to tell how much 'touch' David Garrard has or Byron Leftwich before him had. Leftwich can't run for crap though so there's one strike against the stereotype.

I think Troy Smith probably has pretty good touch but he is also a scrambler.

Still, there's white guys in that mold. I'm not sure Tebow isn't in that mold and Matt Jones, I'm pretty sure, was that type of QB in college.

Derek Anderson is more of a scrambler than you think (he has broken off some long runs in his career) and he has no touch, just a deep ball. Alex Smith is definitely a no touch but can heave it and scramble type of QB.

Really, there's a lot of white guys like that to be honest.

[SlowwHand]

I'm saying McNabb has more touch than most Black QB's, but is still lacking when you name a comparable White QB.
How many Black QBs are in the HOF? Is there another besides Warren Moon?
So it's me that's racist? The HOF is racist? Do you think maybe it could be a fact, rather than racism?
Tebow is definitely in that mold, but he's not indicative of my point. Tebow should be Black.