Pro-Life Activist Gunned Down in Michigan

[David Floyd]

Except for BK, of course. In terms of faith and belief, I'd put him right up there with the witch burners.

Hell, he said it - earlier in the thread, he claimed that faith was more important to him than reason.

And you wonder why witches get burned or planes get flown into towers.

Oh, those aren't the same religions? That's a bit like saying there's a different between being killed by Hitler and being killed by Stalin, because Stalin thought you were out to get him and Hitler thought you were Jewish.

[David Floyd]

I would argue, and I think che would agree, that the problem is not with the ideology, but with the people who put it into practice. Christ killed no one, nor did Marx. But the Crusaders murdered many, as did the NKVD. The lesson I take from this is that the ideology should be kept alive, and freely advanced, but it should not be forced on anyone. Compulsion is the common error.

Or sometimes, the ideology is also the problem. If the ideology discourages the use of reason, or discounts human nature (religion and communism), then the ideology is also at fault.

[Felch]

Ideologies, like guns, never kill anyone. People kill people.

[David Floyd]

No ****, but there are stupid ideologies out there, just like there are defective guns.

[David Floyd]

Also, a platitude is worth a thousand words.

Wait, that's a picture. A platitude is what I wipe my ass with.

[Ben Kenobi]

Nikolai, according to the Catholic Church, you're wrong. Mortal vs. venal sins, are, apparently, an important distinction.

And so is confession, but I think Nikolai has a few problems with this. The whole concept of mortal vs venial sins makes no sense outside of the context of confession and communion. It all fits together.

Now, in James 2:10, it says, "Whoever fails in one sin is guilty of breaking all of the Law".

This doesn't mean that all sins are equal, merely that Christ calls us to be perfect.

1 John 5:16-7

"If any one sees his brother committing what is not a mortal sin, he will ask, and God will give him life for those whose sin is not mortal. There is sin which is mortal; I do not say that one is to pray for that. All wrongdoing is sin, but there is a sin which is not mortal."

[Felch]

Platitudes are a sign that I think you're a fool. And since I think you're a fool, I speak to you like I would a child.

Defective ideologies don't kill people. You're giving way too much credit to philosophy. No matter the philosophy, no matter the ideology, bad people will be bad, and good people will be good. Good people and bad people will just twist their ideologies to serve their own interests.

[Robert]

Personally, if we had laws outlawing abortion when the child was viable, I would lose interest in the subject (outside of a personal basis) as arriving at the most reasonable solution that can be arrived at by a secular humanist soceity.

However, we can't even get there without the prochoice crowd getting up in arms, often supported by those who say that they are prolife, but think that others should choose (which isn't a reasonable position, as you can't be anti-murder but think that others can murder if they wish).

JM

The world is not a simple game with 100% good and 100% evil things.
I am against abortion, but I can also see that ie. in a family with 2 children, a man and a woman, when the woman got raped and pregnant and has to keep this child. That may ruin a family life. End up in divorce.
I'd give them a choice. Not because I think that it's a good choice, but because I believe that there are two evils there.

Not to mention of course that there are many exceptions to rules. I don't see your "If you're agains abortion, then you should also be against rape-abortion" position.
I'm against people kicking others, but if someone breaks into my house I'm ver ok with some kicking.

[David Floyd]

Defective ideologies don't kill people. You're giving way too much credit to philosophy. No matter the philosophy, no matter the ideology, bad people will be bad, and good people will be good. Good people and bad people will just twist their ideologies to serve their own interests.

Sometimes an ideology helps. Without Nazism, do you think Reinhard Heydrich would ever have become known as "The Butcher of Prague"?

It's possibly he would have become a murderer, even a mass murderer, but it's quite unlikely that, absent his position within the Third Reich made possible by Nazism, he would have become what he historically was.

Now, in some cases you have a point - the Crusaders would have found some excuse to do what they did, absent Christianity. But that doesn't mean that the Church is anywhere near blameless for the Crusades.

[David Floyd]

BK, if we are quoting platitudes at each other, excuse me I mean Bible verses, then how about this:

"For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

This seems to imply the following: 1)the penalty for each sin is equal, therefore 2)each sin is equal, 3)eternal life (salvation) is though Jesus (ie not the Church).

[Ben Kenobi]

they can't back up praying to Saint Peter

Mark 12:26-7

And as concerning the dead that they rise again, have you not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spoke to him, saying: I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? He is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

Which we also see as in the transfiguration. The saints are alive in heaven and we may pray with them just as we do our brothers and sisters here on earth.

For that matter, they can't really back up their proscription on using condoms, either.

Again, same book. Mark 10:7-9

For this cause a man shall leave his father and mother; and shall cleave to his wife. 8 And they two shall be in one flesh. Therefore now they are not two, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

[Felch]

It's absolutely possible that someone can hold an attitude of racial supremacy, and not go on a killing spree. The ideology doesn't kill people, the SS kills people. If you insist on arguing that an idea can kill, then you're obviously speaking in different terms than I am. I'm talking about actually killing people, and you're talking about giving someone an excuse to kill.

Do you think that a random murderer won't justify his actions after the fact with some sort of excuse? People do that sort of thing all the time. There are killings all the time, all over the world, and they're not about the supremacy of the Aryan race, or the control of the means of production, or transubstantiation. Ideologies are a useful tool to justify killing, but they don't actually cause people to die. Most ideologically rationalized killings are about something else, usually economic or territorial issues.

[Ben Kenobi]

This seems to imply the following: 1)the penalty for each sin is equal, therefore 2)each sin is equal, 3)eternal life (salvation) is though Jesus (ie not the Church).

It implies that sin is plural, ie, the wages, not the wage of sin is death. Death is the wage of sin in aggregate, which says nothing about whether certain sins are worse than others.

[David Floyd]

Which we also see as in the transfiguration. The saints are alive in heaven and we may pray with them just as we do our brothers and sisters here on earth.

Bull****. You don't pray to your buddy Peter when you're sick. You might pray WITH your buddy Peter, but not TO him.

However, Catholics pray directly to saints.

Additionally, if your justification is as weak as what you posted, that would imply that you can pray to/with anyone you think might be in heaven, right?

For this cause a man shall leave his father and mother; and shall cleave to his wife. 8 And they two shall be in one flesh. Therefore now they are not two, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

That is talking about the institution of marriage and the prohibition on divorce, but nice try.

[BlackCat]

Sorry, Ben, but your bible qoutes dosn't make any sense 2000 years later.