Who do you tip to win the US presidential election

[giblets]

Biden will probably limp over the finish line, meh

[C0ckney]

No idea at this point. I thought Trump was toast as he has done precisely nothing for those who voted for him and has been disappointing in almost every respect. The only positive is not starting any new wars, which does at least put ahead of his predecessors. However, these riots are likely to help Trump in swing states, especially without a forceful condemnation from Biden, which in turn would anger a portion of his supporters and perhaps cause some to stay at home. I should say that it's still Biden's to lose, but he may yet lose it.

[-Jrabbit]

It's a pretty obvious attempt to reframe the election as a referendum on "law and order," totally ignoring the root cause of the protests - systemic racism.

This game plan essentially invites Americans to totally ignore Trump's actual actions across 4 years:

Corruption, support for oligarchy, embrace of dictators; failure to protect public health during a pandemic; treating immigrants as animals, separating families and keeping kids in cages; diverting Pentagon and FEMA funds to build a border wall; using his office to attempt impeachable political offenses; inviting and accepting foreign assistance in elections; failing to protect our election process against foreign influence and interference; opening sacred native lands in our national parks to drilling and mining; ignoring his intelligence services; insulting our traditional allies; attempting to destroy everything his predecessor did; gutting federal election laws; packing the courts with extreme conservatives; propping up fossil fuel interests while encouraging pollution increases; defunding public schools; maintaining and promoting his business empire through the power of the office of POTUS; running a political organization populated almost entirely by people who routinely worked outside the law with most of them charged, convicted, and jailed for criminal activities in supporting him; undermining the Postal Service; lying to the American people on a constant and documented way -- The list goes on and on and on.

Donald J. Trump is a monster who should be run out of office for failure of leadership, ignorance of the world, endangering the public health, promoting white nationalism, and wasting tens of millions of taxpayer money of golf ($141 Million for 276 days visiting his own golf courses, far more than Obama).

In essence, Trump wants American voters to ignore 4 years of Trump actions by telling people that they are not safe - not from the virus that will have killed 250,000 people by election day - but because of civil unrest that is happening on his watch and that, frankly, he is encouraging. He could not care less about the health and welfare of the average American; he cares only for himself, which means money and power. His presidency is nothing more than a branding exercise gone wild. He's a *****-grabbing, twice-divorced man who cheats at golf, cheats on his wives, then claims to be Christian but can't quote a Bible verse. He has no morals. He is certainly a narcissist, likely a sociopath, and clearly both willfully ignorant and not too bright. He literally feels compelled to brag about passing a dementia test and tells us he has a "big brain." Yet he spends his days watching TV and making critical policy decisions based on the upcoming election instead of the good of the American people and claiming "his gut" is somehow a better way of making decisions - except for when he's basically pandering to his base by doing whatever Sean Hannity, Tucker Carlson, and Fox & Friends are suggesting.

That's just off the top of my head. The Wikipedia page "Trump administration controversies" is literally 152 pages long.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catego..._controversies

It's laughable that there's even a remote possibility that Trump could win in 2020. But it could happen. It's a crazy fvcking world.

[Egbert]

It's laughable that there's even a remote possibility that Trump could win in 2020. But it could happen. It's a crazy fvcking world.

America has been so badly served by her politicians for so long that perhaps people are desperate for change. America is one of the richest countries in the world yet seeing US cities on TV beggars belief that there could be such large and run down slums. Growing slums. Growing trailer parks. Very low minimum wage. Revolting poverty. America was a "land of opportunity". but now it would be far better to live in Europe or Australia or New Zealand.

[Jon Miller]

I think that is correct. That the violence of the protests and counter-protests will take the focus away from all the other failures of Trump, especially the big one of Covid, and put the focus on a failure with more nuance.

And that means that protestors/demonstrators against police brutality should unilaterally stand down . Not because it is fair, or they are wrong, but because it does increase the chance that this will continue.

Sometimes you have to lose a skirmish to win a big battle and, hopefully, a war.

If Trump was a normal president, right or left (the problems with police brutality are mainly local and existed during Obama), the calculus would be different. But since he is Trump, and has so many obvious devastating failures while at the same time supporting police brutality and inciting conflict out of a hope to increase his election odds, it is what it is.

Local politicians need to speak to this, because police racism/brutality is a local problem. And point to the ballot box.

JM

[Kidlicious]

*Democrats nominate a mentally ill, corrupt rapist that treats violent thugs like victims and repeats fake news constantly.

JR: It's crazy if Trump wins. America Is so bad.

[-Jrabbit]

As usual, deliberately ignoring the actual post and the facts in evidence.
You know damn well that Trump is the rapist, corrupt AF, and treats victims like violent thugs.
It's Trump that is so bad.

[Kidlicious]

I think that is correct. That the violence of the protests and counter-protests will take the focus away from all the other failures of Trump, especially the big one of Covid, and put the focus on a failure with more nuance.

And that means that protestors/demonstrators against police brutality should unilaterally stand down . Not because it is fair, or they are wrong, but because it does increase the chance that this will continue.

Sometimes you have to lose a skirmish to win a big battle and, hopefully, a war.

If Trump was a normal president, right or left (the problems with police brutality are mainly local and existed during Obama), the calculus would be different. But since he is Trump, and has so many obvious devastating failures while at the same time supporting police brutality and inciting conflict out of a hope to increase his election odds, it is what it is.

Local politicians need to speak to this, because police racism/brutality is a local problem. And point to the ballot box.

JM

The violence isn't bad because it's helping Trump. It's just bad. And this is why you will lose this election.

[Jon Miller]

America has been so badly served by her politicians for so long that perhaps people are desperate for change. America is one of the richest countries in the world yet seeing US cities on TV beggars belief that there could be such large and run down slums. Growing slums. Growing trailer parks. Very low minimum wage. Revolting poverty. America was a "land of opportunity". but now it would be far better to live in Europe or Australia or New Zealand.

I understand the desire for change and that made people blind about Trump in 2016. But if you claimed that Trump's bad points would be controlled, you have been proven wrong. He has been devastating for the US, on about every front other than enriching his friends and hurting people who don't support him. In just 4 years he has significantly reduced the US compared to the nations of Europe (or Australia or New Zealand).

This is why we have to be careful about what change we vote for.

JM

[Jon Miller]

The violence isn't bad because it's helping Trump. It's just bad. And this is why you will lose this election.

I agree that the violence is just bad, but the majority of it is coming from the counter-protestors. And they started it. And Trump encouraged it because he figures it will save his election.

I was not arguing for the violence from the protestors to stop for the election. I had already said that the protestors (And the counter-protestors) had a moral and ethical duty to disarm. I was arguing that the peaceful and non-violent protestors, who are the majority of protestors everywhere or almost everywhere (I am not sure about Kenosha, but that has been the case even in Portland) should stand down for the election.

The protestors should get together, talk about the local political elections that will happen in most places on November 3, about how they can vote and vote safely, and then go home.

JM

[Kidlicious]

No idea at this point. I thought Trump was toast as he has done precisely nothing for those who voted for him and has been disappointing in almost every respect. The only positive is not starting any new wars, which does at least put ahead of his predecessors. However, these riots are likely to help Trump in swing states, especially without a forceful condemnation from Biden, which in turn would anger a portion of his supporters and perhaps cause some to stay at home. I should say that it's still Biden's to lose, but he may yet lose it.

He isn't even going to Wisconsin. The Guard needs to be sent to Portland. It should have been done 3 months ago. At this point every Democrat is responsible for what other Democrats are doing, including Ted Wheeler, the media, and politicians. Voter will hold them accountable. Fake news only goes so far. When people are in danger they wise up quick.

[-Jrabbit]

People's personal experiences do not match up with Trump's "cities on fire" narrative. Nationwide, violent crime is down, and has been decline for the past decade. Local politicians will be held accountable locally, as they should.

[Kidlicious]

I agree that the violence is just bad, but the majority of it is coming from the counter-protestors. And they started it. And Trump encouraged it because he figures it will save his election.

I was not arguing for the violence from the protestors to stop for the election. I had already said that the protestors (And the counter-protestors) had a moral and ethical duty to disarm. I was arguing that the peaceful and non-violent protestors, who are the majority of protestors everywhere or almost everywhere (I am not sure about Kenosha, but that has been the case even in Portland) should stand down for the election.

The protestors should get together, talk about the local political elections that will happen in most places on November 3, about how they can vote and vote safely, and then go home.

JM

This is not about people having guns. This is about the left rioting, destroying property and attacking people. You say you ate against the violence then you talk about people having guns. People see clear through that. If you're against the violence then come out against the Democrats instead of lying and talking about people having guns to defend property and themselves.

[-Jrabbit]

You are full of it. This is not about "the left" doing anything. This is about cynical "law and order" election messaging - the same tired tactic of coded racism and false comparisons used by Nixon and Reagan. It's pure gaslighting, and a clear attempt to equate legitimate protest over real issues, with violent lawlessness. It's a fear tactic. It attempts to suggest that all Democrats support violence, and that all civic unrest is by Democrats, and oh BTW, that includes all those scary brown people. It's a morally corrupt, fundamentally dishonest series of calculated lies. GOP sheep will follow through repetition, and brainwashed wannabe fascists like Kid will do their part by spreading the lies.

[Jon Miller]

This is not about people having guns. This is about the left rioting, destroying property and attacking people. You say you ate against the violence then you talk about people having guns. People see clear through that. If you're against the violence then come out against the Democrats instead of lying and talking about people having guns to defend property and themselves.

Most of the violence I have seen has come from the counter-protestors. The people who initially brought the guns were the counter-protestors. I remember conversations with radical leftists back in June or something where the conversation was what to do about the armed counter-protestors who were attacking the protestors. There were some arguments in favor of arming (The idea being that then the protestors would not be attacked). Others warned against it and seemed, at the time, to have 'won'.

Now the protestors are armed.

JM
(The radical left does not support Biden at all, so he and other Democratic leadership have no sway with them.)

[Kidlicious]

34 dead JM. How many on each side?

[-Jrabbit]

It's the boogaloos and self-styled "militia" who have the guns, my friend. If a person of color open-carries an assault rifle during a protest, they are immediately confronted and arrested. Oh, and the number of dead is currently 187,248.

[Kidlicious]

Stop trying to gaslight people.

[-Jrabbit]

Trump is the gaslighter. You are among his legions of simpleminded victims.

[Kidlicious]

Dp

[Jon Miller]

If I look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violen...rotests#Deaths it is incomplete.I am not including deaths caused by the police or the deaths of police officers or ones with unclear attribution.

I get (The person who died is in () )
August 29 (counter protestor)
August 25 (protestor)
August 25 (protestor)
July 5 (counter protestor)
July 4 (protestor)
June 27 (protestor)
June 3 (protestor)
June 2 (protestor)
June 2 (counter protestor)
May 31 (protestor)
May 30 (protestor)
May 30 (protestor)
May 27 (protestor)

It is likely that several more protestors and counter-protestors died due to being killed by the other side (from the ones listed where the attribution is unclear), which will make the overall numbers more even. However, there are a lot more protestors than counter-protestors. And the police have killed a number of protestors as well.

JM