Pope: Catholics should ask gay people for forgiveness

[kentonio]

I am an academic. I rightfully ignore all sorts of stupid stuff people say about physics and mathematics (my fields).

As you should.

I am not a trained theologian, but I have studied a lot of theology (more than most BA students) and philosophy including atheist and religious foundations (and other religions) and despite my 'amateur' status I can still recognise not only that Kentonio is not a trained theologian or philosopher, but that he is more ignorant of such discussions than the majority of 'amateur' and 'professional' people I engage in such discussions with.

I'm certainly not a trained theologian or philosopher, I'd consider the amount of time required to train into either of the fields a waste (although the philosophy would be fascinating). As for the ignorance however, you've never bothered to actually enter into a discussion about anything meaningful on terms we both find acceptable, because your Pavlovian response whenever anyone questions Christianity in terms you dislike is to jump on the defensive and start calling people ignorant.

(In fact, the only people that I have experience engaging in such discussions with that approach his level of ignorance are Christians who take the "I am not going to study, I am just going to believe and follow my pastor". As I said, I am suspicious that in real life most atheists who have not engaged in a study of these subjects is not interested in a serious discussion of them.)

The amount of irony dripping out of this paragraph is simply astonishing..

[Bereta_Eder]

Jon mIller is one of those people who strike you as reasonable at first but then the rotten fangs of theocracy rear their ugly head and you understand he's cookoo (like most religious fanatics are)

[Ben Kenobi]

All those jobs (with the possible exception of the most manual farming or factory labour) would have required you to be taught skills. At a time when deafness was usually mistaken for retardation, it seems highly unlikely they'd have chosen deaf youths for skilled jobs.

I'm not sure how far my family's deafness goes back, but they never had trouble working.

You should look into your family tree some time, it would be interesting to see what any deaf ancestors actually did (if there are records of course).

We have relatives scattered all over Germany - the ones that stayed. The ones that left are all over North America now. It took us a very long time to find the cousins in Germany for a couple of reasons.

There are some strange stories surrounding my great grandfather. I'm not sure how many of them are true - but we were told that he attempted to burn his records once he got here to Canada. We only found out about our cousins in Germany when one of my great aunts passed, and some things that had been hidden came to light. Her birth certificate was from Germany not from Canada, and from there we were able to search back.

We simply don't know about the hearing. The suspicion is that it was not my great grand father as there are no hearing losses among the ones in Germany. And my great grandmother's family is obscure.

[Bespin]

Get a grip. I was using his own argument against him. Since he holds other viewpoints of people from different cultures so highly, I asked him why not mine?

Try to read more carefully next time.

BTW, I am someone who values empirical evidence and science. My world is based largely on reality. What is your world based on?

Well, in order to explain how I look upon the world I have to state that my philosophical groundview comes from Social Constructionism, i.e I believe that the world and things in it are all social constructs of our surroundings and the values that comes with that social surrounding.

That is why I am arguing that each of your viewpoints is equally worthless for each other, because you have different 'lenses' by which you interpret information in the world. These lenses are a result of the social values that you are brought up with, and now live and inhabit by.

You and me can look upon the same physical object, or see the same social phenomena, but interpret it compleatly differently from each other.

As a result, the way I look at the world, there are no objective right or wrong for all of us. There are just right and wrong for the individual within a certain value-system.

[kentonio]

There are some strange stories surrounding my great grandfather. I'm not sure how many of them are true - but we were told that he attempted to burn his records once he got here to Canada. We only found out about our cousins in Germany when one of my great aunts passed, and some things that had been hidden came to light. Her birth certificate was from Germany not from Canada, and from there we were able to search back.

Did he arrive in Canada around, say, 1945?

[Giancarlo]

And Ben wants to roll us back to those times... You know what happened to people like me. Deaf people were treated one way, but what about gay people?

[Giancarlo]

That is why I am arguing that each of your viewpoints is equally worthless for each other, because you have different 'lenses' by which you interpret information in the world. These lenses are a result of the social values that you are brought up with, and now live and inhabit by.

I disagree on this assessment. My world view is based on empirical evidence and science.

You and me can look upon the same physical object, or see the same social phenomena, but interpret it compleatly differently from each other.

As a result, the way I look at the world, there are no objective right or wrong for all of us. There are just right and wrong for the individual within a certain value-system.

As I said I base my views on empirical evidence, therefore based in fact and evidence. My world view is not like Ben's. Ben lives in fantasy land and believes that there is a man in the clouds who controls everything lol. I don't.

[Proteus_MST]

And Ben wants to roll us back to those times... You know what happened to people like me. Deaf people were treated one way, but what about gay people?

The beginning of the 20th century?

There were lots of people who wouldn't want it ...
for example blacks, as the USA still had racial segregation during this time
or women, as women were only allowed full voting rights in one of all US states, were generally treated unequally to men and, if married, the woman was still a subject of her man and had no full control of her property and earnings

[rah]

I'm sure it sound's like heaven to Ben.

[Ming]

Yeah... Ben longs for the good ole days. Back when women were barefoot and pregnant... were slaves to their husbands... left all decisions up their husbands.
Because maybe back then, he might have been able to find a wife since those are all the qualities he's looking for in a potential slave... Oh I mean wife.

Maybe someday he will be able to have sex that isn't considered a sin...

[rah]

How old is he anyway? His profile shows him as getting up there in age. Or is he lying about that too?
If it's true, he's running out of time.

[Giancarlo]

The beginning of the 20th century?

There were lots of people who wouldn't want it ...
for example blacks, as the USA still had racial segregation during this time
or women, as women were only allowed full voting rights in one of all US states, were generally treated unequally to men and, if married, the woman was still a subject of her man and had no full control of her property and earnings

I think he wants to roll us back even further when only rich white property owners could vote.

[rah]

I think he wants to be that rich white property owner.
Good luck with that.

[giblets]

Pretty sure that douche was in college a decade ago. Actual birthdate probably in the early 1980s.

[giblets]

Outside the Capitol, Sean Ollech and another protester in blue held up a large photo of an aborted fetus.

"This is so they can see the face of abortion," said Ollech, 32, of Austin. "This is what's going on right now across Texas."

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Latest-News-Wires/2013/0701/Texas-abortion-fight-Round-2-Why-a-filibuster-won-t-work-again

Classy.