Pope: Catholics should ask gay people for forgiveness

[Giancarlo]

The math works out. If you're making more than 16k, you're paying more in income taxes than in sales taxes, if you can save 20 percent.

It works out because you say so? You aren't a shining source of objectivity and you know nothing about taxes.

[Giancarlo]

Other than trying to shout me down, I don't see much of an argument against it. You said, "I tried but I failed". Why would I be swayed by a personal anecdote about your feelings? Many people can and do change. Just because you tried and failed, doesn't mean that others have also failed.

It is proven by science, you stupid idiot. And why would I be swayed by any of your stupid personal anecdotes or feelings?

Start naming the people who have changed. Nobody changes their sexual orientation and those few who tried have failed miserably. Exgay therapy is nothing more than torture and fails miserably.

Moron.

[Giancarlo]

This clown cannot name anyone who has actually changed because no such case exists. Sexual orientation is part of who someone is.

[rah]

Income taxes are regressive, because the very wealthy do not pay them because most of their 'income' is not considered income.

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/are-federal-taxes-progressive

Although the overall federal tax system is progressive, with total federal tax burdens a larger percentage of income for higher-income households than for lower-income households, not all taxes within the federal system are equally progressive. Some federal taxes are actually regressive as they are a larger percentage of income for lower-income than for higher-income households.

The individual and corporate income taxes and the estate tax are all progressive. By contrast, payroll taxes for Social Security and Medicare and excise taxes are regressive

You really need to understand the words you're using.

[Ben Kenobi]

Do you have links to that? (as I know this only as a position of fringe protestant sects)

No, it's not fringe at all, really. Catholics and most protestants believe it.

As for the Catholic church -

Even if there is a genetic predisposition toward homosexuality (and studies on this point are inconclusive), the behavior remains unnatural because homosexuality is still not part of the natural design of humanity. It does not make homosexual behavior acceptable; other behaviors are not rendered acceptable simply because there may be a genetic predisposition toward them.

For example, scientific studies suggest some people are born with a hereditary disposition to alcoholism, but no one would argue someone ought to fulfill these inborn urges by becoming an alcoholic. Alcoholism is not an acceptable "lifestyle" any more than homosexuality is.

If one believes that an alcoholic can overcome their predispositions, then there's no reason to suggest that homosexuality would be any different. We don't define an alcoholic by their alcoholism - although in years past, that used to be the case.

[Ben Kenobi]

It works out because you say so?

I already did the math. 9225 exempt federally, pay on 11 and change at 15 percent, works out to be more than 6 and a quarter on 20k income.

[Ben Kenobi]

It is proven by science

What science? Science hasn't actually shown that there's any genetic component whatsoever.

[Ben Kenobi]

You really need to understand the words you're using.

How can it be regressive when the wealthy are paying more, and pay most of the tax?

[-Jrabbit]

n/m

[rah]

Proof that you don't really understand the terms regressive and progressive.

Reread the definitions and the articles I posted. You seem to be the only one that believes that the federal income tax is regressive.

[-Jrabbit]

No, it's not fringe at all, really. Catholics and most protestants believe it.

As for the Catholic church -

If one believes that an alcoholic can overcome their predispositions, then there's no reason to suggest that homosexuality would be any different. We don't define an alcoholic by their alcoholism - although in years past, that used to be the case.

Proteus asked for links.

[Giancarlo]

I already did the math. 9225 exempt federally, pay on 11 and change at 15 percent, works out to be more than 6 and a quarter on 20k income.

That isn't how income tax works. You are treating it as a flat tax. You can't fix stupid.

[Ben Kenobi]

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a6.htm

Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,141 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered." They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.

Note -chastity is not celibacy. Since chastity is rightly ordered sexual conduct - what the Chruch is saying is that self-mastery of these desires is possible and that it is possible for people to overcome their difficulties.

It is not the same as saying that self-mastery is easy - and this isn't singling out anyone. We are all called to this.

[Giancarlo]

What science? Science hasn't actually shown that there's any genetic component whatsoever.

Actually science has shown sexual orientation is strongly linked to genetics (notice I said sexual orientation). But I should take the word of a nutter over facts?

By the way, I asked you to name those who have changed. Just another lie of yours.

[Ben Kenobi]

That isn't how income tax works. You are treating it as a flat tax. You can't fix stupid.

Uh, no I'm not. 9225 of the 20k is exempt. The remaining 11k is taxed at 15 percent.