Pope: Catholics should ask gay people for forgiveness

[Ben Kenobi]

You can find someone that believes anything. That unicorns exist or other fantasy characters.
The point is that the article you quoted infers the president said it where it's clear that he did not

Well then. Glad to see you're admitting that there are in fact, many people who believe this to be the case.

[Ben Kenobi]

The legal experts on the court thought so.
And if it stops some other business from discriminating while trying to hide their bigotry behind the guise of religion, so be it.

Really. Well the 4th amendment says otherwise. Is there any part of the Bill of Rights that you actually support, Ming?

[Ben Kenobi]

Why shouldn't the church pay property taxes?

Because they are a charitable organization? Why would you tax a non-profit?

[Lorizael]

Even if BK weren't an awful human being, I'd be tempted to have him on ignore just because of his furiously obnoxious posting style.

[Ben Kenobi]

Even if BK weren't an awful human being, I'd be tempted to have him on ignore just because of his furiously obnoxious posting style.

Well, I suppose I could type in italics...

[Elok]

I'm not digging; somewhere in the past seven pages, has somebody pointed out that RCC doctrine is not based on any old off-the-cuff remarks somebody happens to record the Pope saying? So that, for example, if one of the Borgia popes swore in a moment of ecstasy to canonize a really terrific whore, that did not instantly become Church doctrine?

Or that "don't discriminate" is so vague as to be effectively a spoken Rorschach blot? Here, quick test: which of the following constitute discrimination?

-Refusing to a allow a gay customer to use your public bathroom
-Refusing to bake a birthday cake for a gay customer
-Refusing to bake a wedding cake for a gay customer
-Refusing to allow a gay customer to leave flyers for Pridefest 2016 in your store, when other customers can advertise their events in that fashion
-Refusing to bake a cake decorated with a picture of Jesus and the disciples having a big gay orgy

I assume everyone, or almost everyone, would agree on the first one and the last one. What about the Pope's two words leads you to a specific choice between the ones in the middle?

[Proteus_MST]

The Church *is* a charitable organization, so should be wholly exempt.

Obviously you don't understand

The church tax isn't collected from the church ... but rather it is collected by the state, from church members, for the church.
All church taxes collected are given to the church

With other words, it is some kind of state sanctioned membership fee for belonging to one of the churches

Actually cour RCC is the church which profits the most fgrom church taxes and makes use of it even in countries where every congregation has the free choice of whether it takes part in the church tax system or not

Here you can read more about it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_tax

[Kidlicious]

Obviously you don't understand

The church tax isn't collected from the church ... but rather it is collected by the state, from church members, for the church.
All church taxes collected are given to the church

With other words, it is some kind of state sanctioned membership fee for belonging to one of the churches

Here you can read more about it:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_tax#Germany

Yeah, that's what I thought, but wasn't sure. Much different than a tax that goes to the government.

[rah]

Two, everyone is permitted to attend mass, but not all are permitted to partake of the eucharist.

In all my 60 + years I've never seen anybody every turned away from partaking of the eucharist.
(not that this means anything, I just wanted to point it out)

And the corporation I work for does considerable charitable work and that part provides a tax benefit. (even thought the company does it more for the positive PR)

Not everything the church does is for charity so why should they be fully exempt. The should get a tax benefit for just their charity work like everybody else.

[Proteus_MST]

In all my 60 + years I've never seen anybody every turned away from partaking of the eucharist.
(not that this means anything, I just wanted to point it out)

And the corporation I work for does considerable charitable work and that part provides a tax benefit. (even thought the company does it more for the positive PR)

Not everything the church does is for charity so why should they be fully exempt. The should get a tax benefit for just their charity work like everybody else.

Aye ... noone says anything against tax exemptions for soup kitchens, crisis helplines our what else purely caritative facilities the catholic church (or other churches) maintains

[Ming]

I'm with Rah... religions should only get tax breaks on their charity work.
And I'm saying all religions and not just targeting the Catholic Church. Yes, the RCC does a lot of charity and shouldn't take a tax hit for those activities.

But there are some sham religions out there which are totally in it for the money and hide behind "religious tax breaks"

I say make all religions open their books to the IRS and show just what they are providing to the community. Companies and citizens have to, why shouldn't religions pay their fair share.

[rah]

Yeah, that some of the money they use to push their political agenda is tax exempt doesn't seem fair at all.

But you are correct, I don't think anyone would object for exemptions for even marginal charitable work.

[Jon Miller]

You three are more fascist then Trump.

JM

[Ming]

You three are more fascist then Trump.

JM

Please explain why?

None of us are saying charitable work should be taxed. But just adding "religion" to something shouldn't give it the right to be tax free.
Gee... just look at Scientology.

[Jon Miller]

Throughout most of history, the primary action used in religious persecution were extra taxes: treating (a particular) religious goods as unequal to other goods.

That is exactly what you are all arguing for right here.

You are arguing that certain goods (Mass, for example) are fundamentally different than other goods (food, works of art, etc) and so must be taxed differently (and at a much higher effect rate). This has traditionally been one of the main avenues to persecute a group of people.

All goods should be treated the same way. (particularly ideological/religious/etc goods)

Finally, it definitely seems like you are saying that there should be income taxes and not specifically property taxes, as you are talking about specific activities rather than specific places. In order to tax a non-profit (religious or otherwise) with income taxes you would have to to make a special tax that just hits religious institutions (which is pretty much the definition of persecution).

Earlier we all laughed a little at Ben and his concerns. It seems like you really want to validate his concerns and his world image.

JM