was corbyn really against the remain?

[C0ckney]

Trump is there only because Trump supporters chose him out of a large field. Hillary is there because her supporters chose her over Bernie and a couple others. And the D and R choice is because D votes D and R votes R. No one is forced to be D or R, they choose to be. If so many didn't choose to be, then there would be more options.

Everyone is responsible for their own vote. And anyone who supports a fascist with that vote is to blame for supporting fascists. You want to apologize for fascist supporters rather than accept that obvious reality.



I wouldn't do either. I have never voted for President. Everyone has a choice as to who they support and who they don't support. Your failed mindset where you feel you have to support **** or piss is precisely why **** and piss are the options on your menu.

In any case, "expect" is not mutually exclusive with "blame" as you keep trying to claim. I expect you will continue your inane quest to apologize for fascists... and I blame you for choosing to do so.

none of that bizarre nonsense even comes close to addressing my points. i would ask you to try again, but in fact it is a timely reminder of how pointless debate is with you.

[Aeson]

Wait.
You mean that the purposfully dismantling of the public and social provisions fill the working class (and not only) with hate?

Well of course it does. It's only human

No, it's a feedback loop. Both the leaders and those who allow themselves to be lead down that path are to blame. The racist/xenophobic tendencies give politicians easy means to pit groups against each other.

[Jon Miller]

Trump is there only because Trump supporters chose him out of a large field. Hillary is there because her supporters chose her over Bernie and a couple others. And the D and R choice is because D votes D and R votes R. No one is forced to be D or R, they choose to be. If so many didn't choose to be, then there would be more options.

Everyone is responsible for their own vote. And anyone who supports a fascist with that vote is to blame for supporting fascists. You want to apologize for fascist supporters rather than accept that obvious reality.

Actually, since in the US congress decides the presidential election if no one has greater than 50% of the electoral votes, having more than 2 parties if there are not already more than 2 strong parties in congress, is heavily discouraged. See Bloomberg's reasoning.

JM

[Aeson]

none of that bizarre nonsense even comes close to addressing my points. i would ask you to try again, but in fact it is a timely reminder of how pointless debate is with you.

Your point is to hold fascists blameless for being fascist. The reality is there is no good reason to ever support fascists. So of course there's no point in your attempt to convince me it's ok to be fascist.

[Bereta_Eder]

cockney is not holding the people blameless for voting fascists.

There is a whole system behind this mechanism.

IF there is no other alternative, yes they will vote for them.


It would mean less work if the propaganda machine blew off some steam and made that other alternative present, that's all.

It's a matter of convinience

[Aeson]

Actually, since in the US congress decides the presidential election if no one has greater than 50% of the electoral votes, having more than 2 parties if there are not already more than 2 strong parties in congress, is heavily discouraged. See Bloomberg's reasoning.

JM

We vote for congress as well. But more importantly, D and R aren't necessarily the two parties and their platforms aren't necessary.

I've argued against our voting system many times, but pretending the only choice was to vote Trump or Hillary is wrong. There were plenty of other choices that simply weren't as popular.

In no case is someone blameless for how they vote (or not).

[C0ckney]

Your point is to hold fascists blameless for being fascist. The reality is there is no good reason to ever support fascists. So of course there's no point in your attempt to convince me it's ok to be fascist.

when you learn to read properly and debate honestly, then perhaps we can have a discussion. until then, i shan't bother.

[Jon Miller]

At this time, there is only Hillary and Trump.

The problem is that for there to be more options, people would have had to vote for their to be more options in the past. Maybe at some point people will do so, but it will have to be with the realisation that they will fail the first time but are enabling the possibility of success in 4-8 years.

That makes it really really unlikely.

JM

[Aeson]

cockney is not holding the people blameless for voting fascists.

He quite clearly said "who can blame them" and "I don't blame them".

[Bereta_Eder]

He quite clearly said "who can blame them" and "I don't blame them".

I don't blame them either if I have first checked myself and the whole political system and see that they have another option

[Aeson]

when you learn to read properly and debate honestly, then perhaps we can have a discussion. until then, i shan't bother.

You said "who can blame them"... I pointed out they are culpable for thei choices, and you had a hissy fit then ran away.

All you have to do is admit people are to blame for their own choices, that fascist are to blame for being fascist, and there's no problem.

[C0ckney]

nope, sorry. you had your chance and i'm just not interested.

[Aeson]

At this time, there is only Hillary and Trump.

The problem is that for there to be more options, people would have had to vote for their to be more options in the past. Maybe at some point people will do so, but it will have to be with the realisation that they will fail the first time but are enabling the possibility of success in 4-8 years.

That makes it really really unlikely.

JM

There is not voting, there is Lib. There were plenty of other options beside Trump. There are some other parties in some states. No one is forced to vote D or R.

I agree the system promotes two choices, but only because of (general) human nature. The people in the system are ensuring the system continues, and have to accept responsibility for their part in it. (I accept my part of it as well.)

[ZEE]

The classic C0ckney-Tactic™... just ignore everybody that is PWNing you instead of putting up a fight.

[Aeson]

nope, sorry. you had your chance and i'm just not interested.

Run away fascist apologist ...