So how long will Ben last this time?

[Elok]

By-the-by, it was a precursor to this exact same conversation (Byzantines at fault for getting sacked) that finally convinced me, four years ago, to just stop responding to BK at all. I presented the argument, "So, I get locked out of my house, hire a locksmith to let me back in, but as soon as he does he rapes my wife and takes all my stuff. I am at fault in this scenario?" His response: "After you refuse to pay him? Yes."

Aaaaanyway, let's de****ify this thread. It really has nowhere to go but up. I think this is the funniest Muppets clip I have ever seen, not because of the Muppets, but because Deborah Harry looks so incredibly high you just know she's only singing the lyrics to avoid completely losing her **** and chewing on their felt-lined faces. Agree or disagree?

[Kidlicious]

Seems pretty clear to me, and I was a prot.

You were a Mennonite. Most Mennonites don't call themselves protestant. I don't call myself a protestant either, btw.

[Elok]

If you disagree, feel free to post a video of somebody else trying very hard to pretend they're not high on video. We'll have a contest! House rule: professional videos only (something someone paid to produce, e.g. TV or movies); don't subject us to YouTube clips of "LOL watch me try to play Halo on whippets."

[Kidlicious]

I'd post videos of Amy Winehouse or Charlie Sheen but it just doesn't feel right.

[Bereta_Eder]

By-the-by, it was a precursor to this exact same conversation (Byzantines at fault for getting sacked) that finally convinced me, four years ago, to just stop responding to BK at all. I presented the argument, "So, I get locked out of my house, hire a locksmith to let me back in, but as soon as he does he rapes my wife and takes all my stuff. I am at fault in this scenario?" His response: "After you refuse to pay him? Yes."

This has been the most accurate description of Ben, ever.
I didn't even read the rest
(will do later)

[kentonio]

If you disagree, feel free to post a video of somebody else trying very hard to pretend they're not high on video. We'll have a contest! House rule: professional videos only (something someone paid to produce, e.g. TV or movies); don't subject us to YouTube clips of "LOL watch me try to play Halo on whippets."

This remains my favourite..

[-Jrabbit]

By-the-by, it was a precursor to this exact same conversation (Byzantines at fault for getting sacked) that finally convinced me, four years ago, to just stop responding to BK at all. I presented the argument, "So, I get locked out of my house, hire a locksmith to let me back in, but as soon as he does he rapes my wife and takes all my stuff. I am at fault in this scenario?" His response: "After you refuse to pay him? Yes."

Aaaaanyway, let's de****ify this thread. It really has nowhere to go but up. I think this is the funniest Muppets clip I have ever seen, not because of the Muppets, but because Deborah Harry looks so incredibly high you just know she's only singing the lyrics to avoid completely losing her **** and chewing on their felt-lined faces. Agree or disagree?

Interestingly, while this was lip-synched, it is definitely a fresh performance done for the Muppets appearance, as it does not match any recorded version I'm aware of. (Plus, she's way off mic at the end, for the last line or so, with no audible change to the vocal.)

[giblets]

Wait, does this mean the muppets weren't really playing the instruments?

[-Jrabbit]

Oh no, that part is clearly performed live.

[Ben Kenobi]

"So, I get locked out of my house, hire a locksmith to let me back in, but as soon as he does he rapes my wife and takes all my stuff. I am at fault in this scenario?" His response: "After you refuse to pay him? Yes."

The analogy would be:

1, it's not your house. You have stolen someone else's house.

2, you get locked out by your brother to whom the house does not belong, who steals the house from you.

3, you decide to go get a locksmith, promising to pay him for his work.

4, the locksmith comes in, has to evict your brother, he changes all the locks for you.

5, your brother goes and brings a bunch of his friends back with him.

6, the locksmith doesn't want to deal with this bull**** anymore and asks to be paid.

7, you can't pay the locksmith so you decide to rob your neighbors to pay the locksmith, but even then you are short.

8, your brother's friends come back to take possession. You, being hooped decided to ask the locksmith to help you protect the house.

9, the locksmith agrees to help you.. for a price. You agree.

10, the locksmith shoots your brother's friends.

11, you go to the neighbor again and rob him to try to pay the locksmith his agreed on price. You're still short.

12, the locksmith, tired of the bull**** decides to take the house that you stole from you, (since you don't have title), he kicks out your family and puts you on the street, taking everything you have. He also steals from your neighbors.

13, the neighbors come to the locksmith looking for you. They find you, you get hung in the street.

There's no good guys in this story, least of all Andronikos, who stole from the treasury, stole from the people, stole from the Crusaders, and stole and killed his own brother. And in the end, ended up dead.

There is always a price to be paid for evil deeds. Andronikos paid for his, and the Empire suffered because of it. Had Andronikos not sought out the crusaders, had he accepted the deposition, had he done pretty much anything else, it would have had a different result.

Yes, the Crusaders could have said no. But do you blame the one selling evil or the one choosing to participate? You are right that the Crusaders are morally culpable for their choices, but so were the Byzantines.

[Ben Kenobi]

You were a Mennonite. Most Mennonites don't call themselves protestant. I don't call myself a protestant either, btw.

*sigh*. I was an Anglican before that. And yes, Mennonites are followers of Menno Simon. They are Anabaptists, which are distinct from Calvinists, et al, but they are protestants too. You really need to read up on them.

[Ben Kenobi]

I'm saying he didn't really care, especially as the wave of violence helped sweep him into power.

So what you're saying is that he was an accessory to ethnic cleansing which he supported insofar as it brought him to power.

He was a total *******

Indeed. And that's my point.

Which didn't happen, because no-one gave a **** about 'innocent lives' back then, they cared about money and power. The popes as much (if not more) than everyone else.

Uh, they cared a great deal about massacres of their fellow believers. See, Church of the Holy Sepulchre which touched off that whole First Crusade, era.

The ceremony took place in the Trullo Hall, in the Great Palace, on 2 March 1180 That was her betrothal or wedding to Alexios you uneducated idiot (she was 8 years old at the time, which says a lot about Christian values back then). She married Andronikos in 1183, a year AFTER the massacre.

She was promised to him in marriage prior to the massacre. Which is my point.

Glad to see you've conceded that by acknowledging that the contract was already written.

[Ben Kenobi]

If he truly had faith in his beliefs, he wouldn't be so desperate to find historical links to back them up.

The facts speak for themselves. I had once thought that the Catholics were ultimately culpable for the Fourth Crusade. When I read into the matter further, my opinion on this changed. This was all after my conversion, btw.

[Kidlicious]

*sigh*. I was an Anglican before that. And yes, Mennonites are followers of Menno Simon. They are Anabaptists, which are distinct from Calvinists, et al, but they are protestants too. You really need to read up on them.

I'm not sure why you call people protestants who were rejected by protestants. Can you explain that?

[Ben Kenobi]

Personally, if the question is, "why does BK believe what he believes" I have to take a look at the people who have made a real contribution to my life. Many of them are Catholics who have treated me well.

Apolyton I credit with driving me further to the right (I was a centrist when I first came on here), and showing me the errors of my ways. So many polytubbies have shown me that the way was not with the angry, bitter *******s who pucker up when someone cries the word, "novena". Who go out of their way to treat me like a piece of crap just because they disagree with me.

There's no better way to convert a fellow classical liberal than to treat him like dirt.

Apolyton is a fantastic apostolate to the Way. I must give you folks full credit for driving me into the arms of His Church.