So how long will Ben last this time?

[Kidlicious]

And God does not contradict himself.

If you mean that God does not call evil good, and good evil, then true. Then that which was good can never become evil. Therefore beliefs that Christians hold today can not be true if they contradict the beliefs of the early church unless you want to claim that the early church did not believe correctly.

You understand your ndentity through genetics, which is simply the sum of your inheritance from your forefathers. If you don't understand your history you do not understand who you are.

This is ridiculous. How could gentiles ever be Christians then?

[Kidlicious]

Indeed, you are a new man. And yet you are still Kidicious. That is my point. Yes, the Church does change in it's constituent parts, but the identity does not change. You have a soul that does not change, that has been given to you by God, while the Church has Christ as it's head.

I'm not Kidicious. I'm born again. And even though I am born again the sinful nature sometimes makes me do that which I do not want to do. So, my body deteriorates and dies, and I do that which I do not want to do. Do you really want to compare me to the Catholic Church?

[Bereta_Eder]

Shouldn't your time be spent more productively like speculating about star wars?
Seems to make as much sense and it's also a nice hobby

[Proteus_MST]

Got any evidence to support this position? I cited evidence for my position of continuity.

I don´t see how I would need to cite anything for this.
The christian faith is built around the belief that Jesus is god himself.
That Jesus therefore for a christian should be the highest authority ... far higher than any priest that came after him stands out of question ...
and that therefore anything that twists the words of Jesus arouind (or falsely interprets them) detracts from the christian religion for me also doesn´t need any explanation.
(also if books get chosen to be left out of the bible for wrong reasons (for example if they actually contain teachings of Jesus, but get left out, because their teachings don´t fit the line the church wants to proceed ... or if books get put into the bible (despite doubts of their veracity) because they support certain opinions by church fathers)

And which synods were these and when did they occur, and what did they teach?

For example the first council of Nicaea, which had the Trinity doctrine on its Agenda and declared Arianism to heterodox, becxause they had a different belief about this.

[Proteus_MST]

Btw. ... those early catholics surely loved their love-feasts ... you could get declared anathema, if you refused an invitation to them

If anyone shall despise those who out of faith make love-feasts and invite the brethren in honour of the Lord, and is not willing to accept these invitations because he despises what is done, let him be anathema.

Canon 11, Council of Gangra (340 AD)

[Ben Kenobi]

Therefore beliefs that Christians hold today can not be true if they contradict the beliefs of the early church unless you want to claim that the early church did not believe correctly.

Your argument rests on the fault premise that the early Christians did not have bishops. St. Clement of Rome lived during the apostolic era. Given that everyone argues that the Apostles lead the early church, that doesn't leave any wiggle room here.

How could gentiles ever be Christians then?

Because they were created by God.

[Ben Kenobi]

I don´t see how I would need to cite anything for this.

Well then, I don't see why you hold a position for which you have no evidence to support.

[Ben Kenobi]

I'm not Kidicious. I'm born again. And even though I am born again the sinful nature sometimes makes me do that which I do not want to do. So, my body deteriorates and dies, and I do that which I do not want to do. Do you really want to compare me to the Catholic Church?

Why not? Individual Catholics die, but the Church lives on.

[Kidlicious]

Your argument rests on the fault premise that the early Christians did not have bishops. St. Clement of Rome lived during the apostolic era. Given that everyone argues that the Apostles lead the early church, that doesn't leave any wiggle room here.

No, my argument does not rest on that premise. Even if Peter considered himself a bishop, which I haven't seen any evidence for that, he didn't consider himself to be infallible. The idea of infallibility didn't come until the 2nd century, and even when it did most Christians didn't believe in it. Christians only came to believe in papal infallibility after being taught that for centuries, the Middle Ages.

So the church's belief in infallibility is actually evidence against the claim that whatever the Catholic church teaches is God's truth. The early Christians did not believe in that.

Because they were created by God.

They were born pagans. We were all born in the flesh. That is our history. What sense does it make to believe in our historical identity?

[Kidlicious]

Why not? Individual Catholics die, but the Church lives on.

You have failed to make your point. Catholics ARE the Church.

[Ben Kenobi]

You have failed to make your point. Catholics ARE the Church

You have not understood my point. Christ is the Church.

[Ben Kenobi]

No, my argument does not rest on that premise. Even if Peter considered himself a bishop, which I haven't seen any evidence for that, he didn't consider himself to be infallible. The idea of infallibility didn't come until the 2nd century, and even when it did most Christians didn't believe in it. Christians only came to believe in papal infallibility after being taught that for centuries, the Middle Ages.

Can you state the Catholic doctrine of Infalliability?

Because they were created by God. They were born pagans. We were all born in the flesh. That is our history. What sense does it make to believe in our historical identity?

Because of the law written on our hearts. God made us.

[Kidlicious]

I'm done here, concerning that issue.

[Ben Kenobi]

Well, then.

My point is that what you believe Catholics teach about infalliability is not what Catholics actually believe about infalliability.

[Kidlicious]

Well, then.

My point is that what you believe Catholics teach about infalliability is not what Catholics actually believe about infalliability.

You were trying to make an irrelevant point, so I'm done.