The tyranny of religion

[Kidlicious]

No troll. It's a fact. If we could simply will ourselves from sin, what's the point of having Christ?

If you have a will to sin you have no part with Christ. He and the Father are one. He is the Way. Surrender to God.

[Kidlicious]

Telling a lie needlessly is bad communication. Sometimes good communications can require a lie, but needless lies are always bad communications. Adam's god threw away his credibility for nothing.

You can assert that bad communications are, really, secretly, good communications, but then you are left merely arguing by assertion, and contrary to logic. That's a silly path to follow.

Lie?

[Kidlicious]

This makes no sense. One's will is an expression of one's intellect - it is based on a choice. They are not opposites or mutually exclusive. What you have isn't even psychology, let alone simple psychology.

They are completely different. Human beings are double-minded. We all consistently believe two contradictory things. God is pure, not double-minded. There is no difference between what he says and what he believes.

[Berzerker]

I'm actually in a different camp. That God sees all possible futures. People choose hell, predestination either way is wrong.

if we're born sinners we're predestined

Lie?

God's warning to Adam about the consequences of the tree was false, and assuming God knew that, God lied. On the other hand, the Serpent's prediction was true and God himself says so when explaining the situation to his friends before evicting Adam and Eve from the Garden

[Ben Kenobi]

If you have a will to sin you have no part with Christ. He and the Father are one. He is the Way. Surrender to God.

And even so I still sin and must repent.

[Ben Kenobi]

if we're born sinners we're predestined

Without Christ, yes, but that is why he died to save all of us.

[Berzerker]

Here's the problem I have with that, he didn't die, he spent 3 days in a cave. Now, I dont want to diminish his suffering, but it cant compare to the everyday suffering endured by people who actually do die. The atheist who takes the bullet or grenade meant for someone else has made the ultimate sacrifice and they did it without any "promise" of occupying a heavenly seat next to God. And why does God need a sacrifice? Its a religion based on human sacrifice and cannibalism.

[Kidlicious]

And even so I still sin and must repent.

You can't repent and sin at the same time.

[Kidlicious]

if we're born sinners we're predestined



God's warning to Adam about the consequences of the tree was false, and assuming God knew that, God lied. On the other hand, the Serpent's prediction was true and God himself says so when explaining the situation to his friends before evicting Adam and Eve from the Garden

That he would die? He did die. What do you mean it was false? The serpent is the liar. He said they would be like God, which is false. They would have been like God by doing as God does.

[Kidlicious]

"he didn't die"

Yes he did. His physical life ended.

[Kidlicious]

"he didn't die"

Yes he did. His physical life ended. He gave up exactly what the atheist did. The atheist just loved his physical life.

[kentonio]

"he didn't die"

Yes he did. His physical life ended. He gave up exactly what the atheist did. The atheist just loved his physical life.

Which is braver or more noble to you? Sacrificing something valuable with no expectation of reward, or doing it truly believing you have something better coming anyway?

Even if you believe in God, I'm damned if I can think of any reason why you wouldn't concede that the athiests sacrifice is the greater. Even if you do think they are misguided or wrong or whatever. I routinely admire religious people for certain behaviours or aspects of their life, without feeling any need to think they are correct.

[Kidlicious]

Which is braver or more noble to you? Sacrificing something valuable with no expectation of reward, or doing it truly believing you have something better coming anyway?

Even if you believe in God, I'm damned if I can think of any reason why you wouldn't concede that the athiests sacrifice is the greater. Even if you do think they are misguided or wrong or whatever. I routinely admire religious people for certain behaviours or aspects of their life, without feeling any need to think they are correct.

Such an atheist is certainly double-minded, which makes him inferior morally. Theoretically, if an atheist were godly, then you would have a point. But how can someone reject godliness and still be godly?

[grumbler]

Here's the problem I have with that, he didn't die, he spent 3 days in a cave. Now, I dont want to diminish his suffering, but it cant compare to the everyday suffering endured by people who actually do die. The atheist who takes the bullet or grenade meant for someone else has made the ultimate sacrifice and they did it without any "promise" of occupying a heavenly seat next to God. And why does God need a sacrifice? Its a religion based on human sacrifice and cannibalism.

That's one of the bizarre elements of Christianity, for sure. Supposedly, Christ was god (though he also was god's son, which doesn't make any sense), and knew he was god, so his "sacrifice" was about the same as the sacrifice you make when you take off your hat. I suppose that one could argue that his sacrifice was having to spend some time living as a mortal, but
(1) that's not what Christians appear to claim was his "sacrifice," and
(2) time means nothing to an immortal.

There are plenty of plot loopholes in other religions, but that's probably the biggest one (other than the attempt to explain the impossible in the Trinity bit, which is related) that I am aware of in any religion.

[Kidlicious]

That's one of the bizarre elements of Christianity, for sure. Supposedly, Christ was god (though he also was god's son, which doesn't make any sense), and knew he was god, so his "sacrifice" was about the same as the sacrifice you make when you take off your hat. I suppose that one could argue that his sacrifice was having to spend some time living as a mortal, but
(1) that's not what Christians appear to claim was his "sacrifice," and
(2) time means nothing to an immortal.

There are plenty of plot loopholes in other religions, but that's probably the biggest one (other than the attempt to explain the impossible in the Trinity bit, which is related) that I am aware of in any religion.

You're missing the point. He is superior to human beings, because of his purity in willing the good. It doesn't matter that he only lost his physical life, because it is not good for a pure being to cease existence.