Sharia Law at Wal Mart [Trigger Warning: People Arguing With Ben]

[Ben Kenobi]

Better question for Loinburger, which killed more people - the Muslim terrorist attack on 9-11 or the entire Spanish Inquisition.

[loinburger]

Better question for Loinburger, which killed more people - the Muslim terrorist attack on 9-11 or the entire Spanish Inquisition.

Why is that a better question? Neither atrocity justifies the other.

[loinburger]

"Christians have only murdered half as many people as Muslims have, therefore Christianity is half as evil as Islam." Is that the sort of reasoning you're trying to apply here? I certainly hope it isn't, but not much would surprise me at this point.

[C0ckney]

Not in religious wars. That last time majority Catholic nations went to war with each other was when? War of the Austrian Succession in the Maria Theresa War?

i'll bet he even has the brass neck to offer private tuition in history.

[Proteus_MST]

Given that the Catholics had churches in Jerusalem, Antioch, Alexandria and Carthage, I'd argue that the Crusades were a defensive action. Is it wrong to fight back against invaders?

AFAIK the christians in the holy land were allowed to live peacefully at this time under the rule of the muslim caliphs ...
they, just as the jews, just had to pay extra taxes.
When the Basileios of the byzantine empire asked for the help of the catholics IIRC he just wanted help against the invading turks ...
not against the muslims in the holy land (with which he was in a state of peace).
So, the I´d rather say that the expansion of the crusade to the holy lands was learly an offensive action and wasn´t directly in the interest of the Basileios
(Not to mention the subsequent crusades (with the sack of constantinople), which were directly responsible for the downfall of the byzantine empire and the establishent of nowadays muslim turkey.)

Considering the bloodbath the crusaders perpetrated during their conquest of Jerusalem, where they mercilessly slaughtered Christians, Jews, Muslims, Old and young so that one historian writes about wading in blood to his ankles I am sure, many christians and jews in Jerusalem would have preferred to live on under muslim rule instead of getting "liberated" by christians

[Bereta_Eder]

AFAIK the christians in the holy land were allowed to live peacefully at this time under the rule of the muslim caliphs ...
they, just as the jews, just had to pay extra taxes.
When the Basileios of the byzantine empire asked for the help of the catholics IIRC he just wanted help against the invading turks ...
not against the muslims in the holy land (with which he was in a state of peace).
So, the I´d rather say that the expansion of the crusade to the holy lands was learly an offensive action and wasn´t directly in the interest of the Basileios
(Not to mention the subsequent crusades (with the sack of constantinople), which were directly responsible for the downfall of the byzantine empire and the establishent of nowadays muslim turkey.)

Considering the bloodbath the crusaders perpetrated during their conquest of Jerusalem, where they mercilessly slaughtered Christians, Jews, Muslims, Old and young so that one historian writes about wading in blood to his ankles I am sure, many christians and jews in Jerusalem would have preferred to live on under muslim rule instead of getting "liberated" by christians

that's totally true and there's an historic phrase about it that I will translate when I get the time

[Ben Kenobi]

how many Jews have been murdered by Christians over the past thousand or so years?

Almost certainly less than 10k.

2k in the Rhineland massacre, 500 in the Lisbon massacre, 2k in the Russian Pogroms.

The Adana Massacre of Jews by Muslims in 1909 killed 30k Jews in just that massacre as all the Christians did, combined.

The correct answer is that more died in 9-11 than died in all the pogroms prior to the 20th century in Russia.

[giblets]

i'll bet he even has the brass neck to offer private tuition in history.

Latin America has been totally peaceful since gaining independence

[Ben Kenobi]

i'll bet he even has the brass neck to offer private tuition in history.

In a war where the primary combatants were Catholic? First world war doesn't count as that was primarily Britain against Germany.

I don't count Napoleon because he wasn't exactly Catholic.

Latin America has been totally peaceful since gaining independence

Nobody cares about Latin America.

[giblets]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paraguayan_War

The Paraguayan War (Spanish: Guerra del Paraguay; Portuguese: Guerra do Paraguai), also known as the War of the Triple Alliance (Spanish: Guerra de la Triple Alianza; Portuguese: Guerra da Tríplice Aliança), and in Paraguay as the "Great War" (Spanish: Guerra Grande, Guarani: Ñorairõ Guazú),[1][2] was an international military conflict in South America fought from 1864 to 1870 between Paraguay and the Triple Alliance of Argentina, Brazil, and Uruguay. It caused approximately 400,000 deaths, one of the highest ratios of fatalities to combatants of any war in South America in modern history. It particularly devastated Paraguay, which suffered catastrophic losses in population--almost 70% of its adult male population died--and was forced to cede territory to Argentina and Brazil.

Nice job Catholics

[Bereta_Eder]

In a war where the primary combatants were Catholic? First world war doesn't count as that was primarily Britain against Germany.

I don't count Napoleon because he wasn't exactly Catholic.



Nobody cares about Latin America.

[giblets]

Ben is a racist.

[loinburger]

Almost certainly less than 10k.

How many murders need to occur before the murdering and murdered parties have their gods changed on them?

[Ben Kenobi]

AFAIK the christians in the holy land were allowed to live peacefully at this time under the rule of the muslim caliphs

Doesn't change the point that these were Christian lands. Christians are permitted to fight to resist invaders.

When the Basileios of the byzantine empire asked for the help of the catholics IIRC he just wanted help against the invading turks ...
not against the muslims in the holy land (with which he was in a state of peace).

The conflict was over who the Latins would serve, the Pope or the Basileos. Because of that conflict, eventually both the Latin Empire and the Greeks were destroyed.

So, the I´d rather say that the expansion of the crusade to the holy lands was learly an offensive action and wasn´t directly in the interest of the Basileios

I'm sure, but that's forgetting that the Basileos had claims on all that Eastern land. Especially on Antioch. That's why he wanted to regain all of it, and why he wanted the Latins to help him regain it.

(Not to mention the subsequent crusades (with the sack of constantinople), which were directly responsible for the downfall of the byzantine empire and the establishent of nowadays muslim turkey.)

The 4th Crusade was more the result of Byz infighting. The deposed Emperor hired the Crusaders in Venice to help him retake Constantinople. They succeeded, he didn't pay the crusaders so they took it for themselves. Tragic, yes, but the Byz aren't innocent victims.

Considering the bloodbath the crusaders perpetrated during their conquest of Jerusalem, where they mercilessly slaughtered Christians, Jews, Muslims, Old and young so that one historian writes about wading in blood to his ankles I am sure, many christians and jews in Jerusalem would have preferred to live on under muslim rule instead of getting "liberated" by christians

As compared with the Armenian genocide? What you forget is that there were many fewer people in the area back then as there are now. More Jews died in Adana in the 20th century.

[Ben Kenobi]

Ben is a racist.

We've been talking about Europe so my first thought was a European war between Catholics. I'd forgotten about Latin America.

If I clarify that to Europe, I believe I'm correct that the last war where the primary combatants were Catholic was the War of the Austrian Succession.