Yet another damn terrorist attack

[C0ckney]

Ask them because they do. Free house, free healthcare, spending money, free utilities, free phone, the works. This is why they come there despite 60% of muslims already there being unemployed and another 20% being only part time employed or seasonally employed. When you have 60% of the adults not working and 70%-80% on social services then they sure as heck are not coming to work. Even if there was work for them, which there is not, the German government estimates only 8% are skilled workers with the rest unskilled.

do you have sources for any of these numbers?

[Dinner]

People don't like it because of how the Nazis used camps but you might be able to build migrant camps where they are kept safe but not allowed out. This would prevent them from disappearing when it is time to deport them or getting out and committing crimes (like rape, robbery, terrorism, or theft which are all to common). Any time they wanted to leave, no problem, here is a plane ticket and an escort to make sure you get on the plane.

The camps would have to be segregated by sex to prevent sexual assaults which are currently out of control in migrant holding facilities.

[Dinner]

do you have sources for any of these numbers?

Yeah, let me look them up. They were posted on another forum where the migrant crisis was being discussed.

[Proteus_MST]

Ok, no welfare. That is a good start but how do they eat and pay rent since they are, for all intents and purposes, unemployable?

Maybe I should have elaborated it further ... there (already now, in germany) is a 2 steps process:

First, people are candidates for refugee status (lets call them refugee candidates) ... with this status,m people have to reside in refugee camps or accommodations, until their status is determined (i.e. whether they are granted refugee status (and are allowed to stay, also meaning they are allowed to leave the refugee camps, or are denied (in which case they are deported out of the EU)).
And then there are people who are gran ted refugee status (and are allowed to stay) ... and can receive regular welfare
(I don´t count the accommodation in refugee homes and camps as receiving welfare, because people in those refugee camps/homes only receive the minimum they need ... like clothes and food) and live in rather cramped conditions (in contrast to normal german citizens who are on state welfare).

So, the central registration (and giving out of refugee passports) would mainly serve the purpose of distributing the refugee among EU countries (so that they cannot select the country with the highest welfare) and also to clearly determine their status ...
i.e. the Passport would contain whether the person is "just" a refugee candidate (who isn´t allowed to work and also isn´t eligible to receive state welfare) or whether the person already has been granted refugee status (and is allowed to work and/or receive welfare).

With a central storage of biometric data it would also make it more difficulties to commit fraud ... a refugee who would travel to Sweden, for example, in order to receive the welfare there, instead of italy where the refugee is registered, could be easily found out, by taking his/her biometric and then check the central database for his/her country of registration.
Also, already denied refugees who apply a second time could be easily be found out, by just checking at registration, if their biometric data already are in the database (witrh the remark "refugee denied").

So, the central registration would solve a lot of problems we have with regards to refugees (i.e. fraud, distribution) and also speed up the process of determining whether a person is a refugee or not (meaning that people who finally are denied refugee status have a shorter time in the country, between registration and final deportation (which actually is the biggest problem at the moment in germany ... that it takes too darn long between registration and denial/acceptance of refugee status))

[Bereta_Eder]

Interesting.
It seems that the mother****ers (excuse my french) want to use even the plight of refugees to push their neoliberal agenda.
Hm.
It will fail.
Again.

[Bereta_Eder]

And of course you won't ever have refugee prisons but open areas of hospitality.

The closed concentration camps have been tried and failed as they led to a totalitarian state the likes of which dinner worships.

[Bereta_Eder]

well of course i would argue that creating a national identity hampers the forming of local or class identity; it replaces the real solidarity from those identities with a false and myth based ersatz version (yes, yes anarchism, blah blah blah ).

but the real point, as the article i posted says, is that national identity is exclusionary because even when the government tries to change what a frenchman is and encourage people to become french, there will be many who resent changing their identity and, because the national identity doesn't have a real foundation, a person can say 'well of course he's not a real frenchman' thus excluding a person/group from that imagined community. it's much harder, however, to say that a person on your street isn't your neighbour.

Which, maybe, you don't even like

I understand the difficulty in accomodating both a left wing internationalist approach with an all encompasing national sense of belonging.

I also udnerstand the major dangers of national unity that can undermine the need of social cohesion and serve neoliberal goals (as it usually happens).

However, there needs to be a sort of national belonging for these people. As I said that will solve one problem.
The other is the sense of humiliation they feel because the west has been ****ing up their coutnries of origin for so long which coincides with their feeling of isolation and disenfranchisement.

I just think that a sense of solid national belonging might somehow help. And one should put face to face the multicultural approach vs assimilation (in a good sense if that's possible) that I'm not so sure if it stems from a state planned authority or from plain societal norms "pressure"


also lots can be said about the devastating effects of the modern nation - state but we shouldn't really discard it so easily. I think it brought some many positive aspects as well regardless on how much on the imaginary (some parts of it) may rest

[Bereta_Eder]

Also the article fails to recognize a grave topological parameter, the artificial far away cities that were propped up (if one is good willed inclined, he would say to house the people - if he is badly willed inclined he will say it was to "clean" paris) but the fact remains that they produced hardcore ghettos completely detached from the surrounding social fabric with devastating effects, I think.

[NICE MOBIUS]

I love how Oerdin thinks people will accept his nasty racist and bigoted opinions as gospel when it has been proved time and time again that:

Oerdin is always wrong™

Oerdin, you must provide links from reputable sources, otherwise I will always assume you are spewing BS.

[rah]

Well that didn't take long.

Reading a "letter to the editor" in the morning paper saying how the attack would have been thwarted if people were allowed to carry guns.

*SIGH*

[pchang]

If anyone has a clue about the bomb on the Russian plane, Putin is willing to pay you a cool $50million out of his pocket change.

[Bereta_Eder]

Damn. He's becoming americanized

[pchang]

Interesting that the reward money is in US dollars and not Roubles.

[rah]

No one wants Roubles.

[Bereta_Eder]

Yeah I was talking about methods.

Anyway I will admit that it isn't 100% sure that we should trust putin about what he says about that.
But probably he's right and this is a terrorist attack