Yet another damn terrorist attack

[kentonio]

If they are in Turkey they are safe. They are not running away for their lives from Turkey. At that point they are just shopping for the best economic situation.

Like I said, I don't blame them but it does mean they are no longer refugees and now are just economic migrants.

Here is why..

https://www.opendemocracy.net/can-eu...stay-in-turkey

[Ellestar]

Was he a good ruler when he arranged the plot that blew up an airliner over Scotland killing 243 innocent men, women and children? How about when he funded the Munich Olympics murders? Or the endless cash he poured into the IRA, PLO, Red Army, Red Faction and the rest to spill innocent blood all over Europe and the Middle East?

He was a rabid ****, as is anyone who tries to whitewash the vicious bastards memory.

Yeah, yeah, whatever western propaganada says you.

[Ellestar]

double post

[Proteus_MST]

Also Germany could take all the syrian population and still have no problem since it is constitutionally forbidden for its army to conduct any meaningful operations outside native soil

AFAIK not true anymore ...
nowadays the Bundeswehr can also take part in combat missions, if the Bundestag decides so
(and in fact the german airforce also has taken part in combat missions in Afghanistan)
but the Bundestag shows great restraint in doing so, due to the fact that it would get great resistance from the german population
(well, the last 2 great successes by the allies ... turning the japanese and the germans into pacifists )

[kentonio]

Yeah, yeah, whatever western propaganada says you.

So those innocent kids who were torn to pieces in bomb attacks, were actually made up by the evil Western propagandists you think?

[Dinner]

Here is why..

https://www.opendemocracy.net/can-eu...stay-in-turkey

Ken, do you remember that Kurdish kid who drowned when his boat sank? His whole family had been in Turkey for three years and the dad worked in construction making ~$7k a year which is about the median income in Turkey. Asked why he was moving his family to Sweden when they were safe in Turkey where he had a job the guy said he could make more on welfare in Sweden than working in Turkey plus he wanted free dental care. He literally said that.

These really are economic migrants. Again, I do not blame them but they do not fit the UN definition for refugees so no country has a legal obligation to take them if they are leaving a safe place where their basic needs (food, water, shelter) are met.

[Proteus_MST]

Which is why it would be good to handle the problem EU wide ...
to have registration camps at all EU borders, where the refugees get registered and perhaps get a provisionary EU passport ...
and then are distributed among the EU countries according to distribution percentages.

This way every EU country would take their share of refugees ... and possible economic immigrants among the refugees wouldn´t have the freedom to pick their dream country (according to the social services present) but might well end in spain or italy instead of the northern countries

[Lorizael]

i think that integration is very important but this can only be done at a local level, i.e. the level at which people live their real lives, in their communities and workplaces.

perhaps i can put it like this, if one thinks of an englishman, one probably has in mind a white cultural (but non-practising) christian. there's nothing wrong with that of course, but trying to make people who clearly aren't like this fit into that idea of englishness doesn't work and trying to change the idea of what englishness is either causes resentment, which only increases exclusion and estrangement, or means the idea is reduced to a set of anodyne 'motherhood and apple pie' values that everyone claims to believe in but mean very little in terms of identity. whereas if one thinks of someone from southall (where i'm from), one probably has in mind someone whose ancestors came from the indian subcontinent and who has the cultural and religious background to match. such local identities are far more inclusive and, because they relate to where people's real lives are lived rather than some abstract and mythologised idea of a nation, are far more solidly based.

Your idea seems to lead to ghettoization.

[giblets]

http://m.theaustralian.com.au/news/w...-1227559636742

German government is estimating 1.5 million migrants by end of year and if allowed to bring over their extended families (which is the goal of all of them) that number grows to over 7 million. That is one year. Just one year. It is close to 10% of the German population in one year.

There is an unlimited number of 3rd worlders out there (well, 6-7 billion) and I am sure a large percentage of them would love to move to the west and sign up for welfare because living on $1 a day in the Central African Republic or Bangladesh sucks. You can't have all of them do that though or else the whole welfare state comes crashing down and you end up ruining the standard of living in your own country.

Why would the German government give welfare to immigrants?

[Dinner]

Which is why it would be good to handle the problem EU wide ...
to have registration camps at all EU borders, where the refugees get registered and perhaps get a provisionary EU passport ...
and then are distributed among the EU countries according to distribution percentages.

This way every EU country would take their share of refugees ... and possible economic immigrants among the refugees wouldn´t have the freedom to pick their dream country (according to the social services present) but might well end in spain or italy instead of the northern countries

I think that is naive. Say you assign someone to Slovakia what is to stop them just going to Germany? Once in Germany well meaning but ignorant people will then say "how terrible, he is homeless and has no money we simply must force the government to give him welfare." In short order every single one told to stay in the poorer parts of the EU will all just make there way to where they want to go to (namely, where they get the most free welfare) instead of where the EU wants to send them.

[Dinner]

Why would the German government give welfare to immigrants?

Ask them because they do. Free house, free healthcare, spending money, free utilities, free phone, the works. This is why they come there despite 60% of muslims already there being unemployed and another 20% being only part time employed or seasonally employed. When you have 60% of the adults not working and 70%-80% on social services then they sure as heck are not coming to work. Even if there was work for them, which there is not, the German government estimates only 8% are skilled workers with the rest unskilled.

They head straight to Germany and Sweden because that is where the largest welfare payout is and, until this last week, where the shortest amount of time before they can invite their extended families over. You will notice all the "refugees" walk through Denmark but none want to stay because Denmark slashed (by like 80%) the welfare they get and won't ever let them bring over family. Thus they all walk through Denmark but don't stop preferring instead to go to Sweden where the welfare jackpot is located.

[pchang]

Your idea seems to lead to ghettoization.

Its not a ghetto if everyone lives like that.

[Proteus_MST]

I think that is naive. Say you assign someone to Slovakia what is to stop them just going to Germany? Once in Germany well meaning but ignorant people will then say "how terrible, he is homeless and has no money we simply must force the government to give him welfare." In short order every single one told to stay in the poorer parts of the EU will all just make there way to where they want to go to (namely, where they get the most free welfare) instead of where the EU wants to send them.

No EU refugee passport (which also should contain biometric identification markers and the country where s/he should stay -> no right for welfare

Simple as that.

With nowadays computer/network/database technology it wouldn´t even be a problem to enter the biometric identification markers (like fingerprints and/or retina scans) into a central EU wide database, so that you could cover cases where refugees deliberately misplace their refugee passports
(actually something like that also would be a good measure in order to keep people out who already applied for refugee status, but were denied it (and deported out of the EU) and just try it a second time.)

But it would require all EU states to work together (for example in order to provide a sufficient number of immigration officers for these registration camps)

[Dinner]

Ok, no welfare. That is a good start but how do they eat and pay rent since they are, for all intents and purposes, unemployable? They do not speak the local language, they have an average of 8-9 years of education (that is the men while the women have even less) which does not even equal a high school diploma, and according to the German government 92% are unskilled. Let us say by some miracle they all get low paid work as janitors or something (the reality is most will not) then what does that do to the wages and prospects of Germany's native poor?

Edit: Ah, ok, you are saying to get welfare they have to stay where they were assigned. That might work if other countries agree to it which I notice they have not.

[C0ckney]

Your idea seems to lead to ghettoization.

why? and why more so than current policies that plainly have led to ghettoisation?