Yet another damn terrorist attack

[NICE MOBIUS]

WTF!?

What possible proof do you have for any of that? All of those asserts are the polar opposite of what I am led to believe.

LINKS!!!

You know, like the link I asked you for in my previous post?

[Dinner]

http://m.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/angela-merkel-hit-by-leaked-forecast-of-15-million-migrants/story-e6frg6so-1227559636742

German government is estimating 1.5 million migrants by end of year and if allowed to bring over their extended families (which is the goal of all of them) that number grows to over 7 million. That is one year. Just one year. It is close to 10% of the German population in one year.

There is an unlimited number of 3rd worlders out there (well, 6-7 billion) and I am sure a large percentage of them would love to move to the west and sign up for welfare because living on $1 a day in the Central African Republic or Bangladesh sucks. You can't have all of them do that though or else the whole welfare state comes crashing down and you end up ruining the standard of living in your own country.

[C0ckney]

point being that a strong national identity (that of course doesn't divert from the establish internationalist, humanitarian, democratic and liberal values) could be useful.
aka, you're greek (or whatother nationality) don't care where you're from

i think that integration is very important but this can only be done at a local level, i.e. the level at which people live their real lives, in their communities and workplaces.

perhaps i can put it like this, if one thinks of an englishman, one probably has in mind a white cultural (but non-practising) christian. there's nothing wrong with that of course, but trying to make people who clearly aren't like this fit into that idea of englishness doesn't work and trying to change the idea of what englishness is either causes resentment, which only increases exclusion and estrangement, or means the idea is reduced to a set of anodyne 'motherhood and apple pie' values that everyone claims to believe in but mean very little in terms of identity. whereas if one thinks of someone from southall (where i'm from), one probably has in mind someone whose ancestors came from the indian subcontinent and who has the cultural and religious background to match. such local identities are far more inclusive and, because they relate to where people's real lives are lived rather than some abstract and mythologised idea of a nation, are far more solidly based.

[Bereta_Eder]

This will simply not happen because they've been living with that for decades.

The refugees come from regions america destroyed

x-post

[C0ckney]

That is just the migrant but once you count family reunitals the numbers are far far higher. For instance the German government has said the expected 1.5 million (by Dec 31st) direct migrants will become 7 million once they get to bring over their entire extended families to also sign up for welfare.

that seems very shaky, and the link you provided was to an australian site apparently quoting a german tabloid. on the other hand, the figure i posted comes from the european commission and is more recent.

[Bereta_Eder]

i think that integration is very important but this can only be done at a local level, i.e. the level at which people live their real lives, in their communities and workplaces.

perhaps i can put it like this, if one thinks of an englishman, one probably has in mind a white cultural (but non-practising) christian. there's nothing wrong with that of course, but trying to make people who clearly aren't like this fit into that idea of englishness doesn't work and trying to change the idea of what englishness is either causes resentment, which only increases exclusion and estrangement, or means the idea is reduced to a set of anodyne 'motherhood and apple pie' values that everyone claims to believe in but mean very little in terms of identity. whereas if one thinks of someone from southall (where i'm from), one probably has in mind someone whose ancestors came from the indian subcontinent and who has the cultural and religious background to match. such local identities are far more inclusive and, because they relate to where people's real lives are lived rather than some abstract and mythologised idea of a nation, are far more solidly based.

but one doesn't exclude the other.

one non origiinally native but greek can be from some neighborhoods of athens and be immedeately recognisable or be from thessaloniki and be recognizable as well (primarily by accent/food etc)

of course the all encompassing ethnological mythomotors will also be present (even for him/her to discard, as is routinly the case)

[Dinner]

I have to say I don't blame them as I would not want to stay in a UN camp either but the fact remains they do have a safe place to go where their basic needs will be met. Thus they really are just economic migrants.

[C0ckney]

but one doesn't exclude the other.

one non origiinally native but greek can be from some neighborhoods of athens and be immedeately recognisable or be from thessaloniki and be recognizable as well (primarily by accent/food etc)

of course the all encompassing ethnological mythomotors will also be present

well of course i would argue that creating a national identity hampers the forming of local or class identity; it replaces the real solidarity from those identities with a false and myth based ersatz version (yes, yes anarchism, blah blah blah ).

but the real point, as the article i posted says, is that national identity is exclusionary because even when the government tries to change what a frenchman is and encourage people to become french, there will be many who resent changing their identity and, because the national identity doesn't have a real foundation, a person can say 'well of course he's not a real frenchman' thus excluding a person/group from that imagined community. it's much harder, however, to say that a person on your street isn't your neighbour.

[Bereta_Eder]

you know, I knew I would get into a discussion with you the moment i mentioned the word "nation/national"
it's an interesting question (one that also has to do with the leftist ideology and their compatibility and co-existance) but I have to run
laterss

[kentonio]

I have to say I don't blame them as I would not want to stay in a UN camp either but the fact remains they do have a safe place to go where their basic needs will be met. Thus they really are just economic migrants.

You think each of the 4,287,293 registered Syrian refugees have a safe place to go? Seriously?

Oh but at least the aid workers have plenty of cash right? Oh wait..

Total Appeal $4,533,248,258
Received to Date $2,019,467,578
Gap $2,513,780,680
Coverage 45%

http://data.unhcr.org/syrianrefugees/regional.php

Seriously dude, wtf? People are running for their damn lives and the neighbouring countries are not exactly welcoming them in with open arms. Which is why like they're doing **** like piling onto rickety boats and risking their lives on the open seas to try and escape to somewhere where people aren't trying to ****ing kill them.

[Dinner]

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015/11/06/report-german-government-downgrade-syrians-can-stay-2-years-no-family-reunions/

Granted, the source is Brietbart, but it seems Germany is changing it's policy so that they cannot bring over their extended families and that they can only stay for two years. I do wonder if Germany actually will deport them after two years though as the German government has a very poor record of actually deporting people even when the courts have rejected their asylum claims.

[Ellestar]

Seriously dude, wtf? People are running for their damn lives and the neighbouring countries are not exactly welcoming them in with open arms. Which is why like they're doing **** like piling onto rickety boats and risking their lives on the open seas to try and escape to somewhere where people aren't trying to ****ing kill them.

Correction: Where people supported by the West aren't trying to kill them. What poor Colonel Quadafi did to the West, anyway? He was a good ruler. And now you killed him and ruined a work of all his life, his country is in ruins and his people run to you on a boats (exactly as predicted by Quadafi).

[Dinner]

You think each of the 4,287,293 registered Syrian refugees have a safe place to go? Seriously?

Oh but at least the aid workers have plenty of cash right? Oh wait..



http://data.unhcr.org/syrianrefugees/regional.php

Seriously dude, wtf? People are running for their damn lives and the neighbouring countries are not exactly welcoming them in with open arms. Which is why like they're doing **** like piling onto rickety boats and risking their lives on the open seas to try and escape to somewhere where people aren't trying to ****ing kill them.

If they are in Turkey they are safe. They are not running away for their lives from Turkey. At that point they are just shopping for the best economic situation.

Like I said, I don't blame them but it does mean they are no longer refugees and now are just economic migrants.

[Dinner]

You think each of the 4,287,293 registered Syrian refugees have a safe place to go? Seriously?

Oh but at least the aid workers have plenty of cash right? Oh wait..



http://data.unhcr.org/syrianrefugees/regional.php

Seriously dude, wtf? People are running for their damn lives and the neighbouring countries are not exactly welcoming them in with open arms. Which is why like they're doing **** like piling onto rickety boats and risking their lives on the open seas to try and escape to somewhere where people aren't trying to ****ing kill them.

If they are in Turkey they are safe. They are not running away for their lives from Turkey. At that point they are just shopping for the best economic situation.

Like I said, I don't blame them but it does mean they are no longer refugees and now are just economic migrants.

[kentonio]

Correction: Where people supported by the West aren't trying to kill them. What poor Colonel Quadafi did to the West, anyway? He was a good ruler. And now you killed him and ruined a work of all his life, his country is in ruins and his people run to you on a boats (exactly as predicted by Quadafi).

Was he a good ruler when he arranged the plot that blew up an airliner over Scotland killing 243 innocent men, women and children? How about when he funded the Munich Olympics murders? Or the endless cash he poured into the IRA, PLO, Red Army, Red Faction and the rest to spill innocent blood all over Europe and the Middle East?

He was a rabid ****, as is anyone who tries to whitewash the vicious bastards memory.