Yay, GOP voter suppression is back!

[kentonio]

He had a DL, it got taken from him... when he was able to get one again he was required to have a birth certificate which he no longer had. Since he was adopted, this proved difficult.

Something which also affects a lot of seniors who can't easily get replacement birth certificates due to how bad record keeping used to be, and who very rarely need to do things like drive cars or open bank accounts.

[DinoDoc]

Important information that Jon Miller failed to disclose.

Why lie, Jon?

Ben, you are assuming facts not in evidence. The only substantive thing you can say is that JM was wrong to use the anecdote about his brother as a general example of someone without an ID. To assume he was lying about the story isn't a leap that can be supported at this time.

[Kidlicious]

Ben accusing a respected poster of lying. Oh the beautiful irony..

What does it matter that you respect him?

[kentonio]

What does it matter that you respect him?

It's ok, he's not a female, you can pipe back down.

[Ben Kenobi]

Ben, you are assuming facts not in evidence.

I'm citing the fact that it does not take months to get your birth certificate. Unless there's other things involved which Jon Miller chose not to disclose. It's as much a fact as telling someone you were pregnant for two years. Anyone who has been there knows that this isn't the case.

Jon Miller said that it took months. JM then stated that his brother's driver's license was confiscated. Which explains why it took him months to get it back and why it was more difficult for him.

The only substantive thing you can say is that JM was wrong to use the anecdote about his brother as a general example of someone without an ID.

Ya think. But why would Jon Miller use this anecdote for this reason?

To assume he was lying about the story isn't a leap that can be supported at this time.

Actually, with the evidence presented, yes, yes I can.

[Ben Kenobi]

Something which also affects a lot of seniors who can't easily get replacement birth certificates due to how bad record keeping used to be, and who very rarely need to do things like drive cars or open bank accounts.

Hmm, remind me which segment of the population is most likely to vote. Dinodoc?

If ID requirements disenfranchise seniors, it sure does a ****ty job of it.

[Kidlicious]

It's ok, he's not a female, you can pipe back down.

Answer the question. No one cares about your baseless, insane lies.

[kentonio]

Answer the question.

Jon has always been a decent guy who certainly hasn't got a reputation for lying. Unlike the retarded ******* who just accused him of lying.

I'm still confused by why you care, given that no feminists were involved in this incident.

[Jon Miller]

Ben, you are assuming facts not in evidence. The only substantive thing you can say is that JM was wrong to use the anecdote about his brother as a general example of someone without an ID. To assume he was lying about the story isn't a leap that can be supported at this time.

We were talking about why someone would not have a DL and find it difficult to get one.

He didn't have a DL, and he found it difficult to get one.

He probably would not have gotten a DL again except he (1) had enough money to get a car and (2) had a job which was facilitated by having a car. For many poor people (or old people) (1) and (2) are not true.

People who had been homeless (or were homeless) may have a hard time getting a DL. People who were old and poor may have a hard time getting a DL (based on my brother's experience). People who were adopted may have a hard time getting a DL (based on my brother's experience). People who went from home to home (due to being poor) may have a hard time getting a DL (based on members of my family's experience).

JM

[DinoDoc]

For many poor people (or old people) (1) and (2) are not true.

JM

How does one sign up for welfare programs without any form of valid photo identification?

[Jon Miller]

A lot of poor americans do not have access to bank accounts or credit.
"the FDIC estimates there are 10 million people living in the U.S. who do not have a bank account — that’s one out of every 13 households. "
http://www.alternet.org/economy/walm...ly-crappy-idea (actually, this would be a great thing that walmart does, most of the poor are serviced by payday loan type places and have no other banking)

A lot of poor americans do not drive.

Face it, requiring a DL to vote is voter supression of the poor.

JM

[Jon Miller]

How does one sign up for welfare programs without any form of valid photo identification?

I think many of the poor are not on welfare (officially, I knew many people who did not apply due to pride/etc).

Never having applied for welfare myself I don't know how to get on it, I wouldn't be surprised that a photo ID was not necessary.

JM

[Jon Miller]

Jon lied. Plain and simple, to further his political agenda. But, his claims don't stand up to scrutiny.

Where did I lie?

JM

[Kidlicious]

Jon has always been a decent guy who certainly hasn't got a reputation for lying. Unlike the retarded ******* who just accused him of lying.

I'm still confused by why you care, given that no feminists were involved in this incident.

You're demonstrating why feminists and others who don't meet a minimum standard should not be allowed to vote.

I don't care if he is a woman. Why can't you make an argument based on reason and not bigotry?

[Ben Kenobi]

Jon, if you don't know how to get on it, perhaps you should refrain from making arguments surrounding it?

People who had been homeless (or were homeless) may have a hard time getting a DL.

Again, you're speaking to someone who does have expertise. It might seem like it's difficult, but most of the people who are homeless do have driver's licenses. It is more likely that they are expired, ineligible, for a different state, etc.

It is possible for them to go to the DMV and get state-issued ID from them that will work for identification purposes. The biggest issues are motivation, (why do this?), and someone willing to take the day to help them out by getting them there and back.

Many homeless deliberately conceal their ID, but they do have them.

People who were old and poor may have a hard time getting a DL (based on my brother's experience). People who were adopted may have a hard time getting a DL (based on my brother's experience). People who went from home to home (due to being poor) may have a hard time getting a DL (based on members of my family's experience).

And my experience is that someone who was homeless, had no money, had ID from a different state, had no issue with getting state-issuance of their Driver's license once the fees were paid. The fees were not expensive. The problem is that someone who is homeless has a different sort of priorities.

But, this is something they absolutely have to have.